First start after engine install problems

[wacko]

Just to confirm do I want the first (5) or the second (Z1) notch on the pully lined up with the notch on the fan housing?

[timmy2]

Here is a photo of mine I just took lined up on the first TDC mark with my timing set at 6 degrees BTDC. (Adjustment bolt is not exactly centered anymore) When the bolt is centered the tip just lines up with the mark.
(When adjusting to advance timing the dizzy base moves clockwise a bit)

[wacko]

Ok so after many adjustments of the distributor and no luck I decided to rotate the crank pulley 360 degrees and then adjust the distributor and rotor back from number 4 to number 1.

It started!! So I assumed at some point I put the distributor in at the wrong rotation of Z1 mark.

I then readjusted all the valves.

Tried to start it and again no luck. Tried minor adjustments to distributor with again no luck.

Rotated crank pulley again 360 to Z1, turned distributor/rotor from 4 to 1 again and it starts!!!

It is now currently back to the way it was to begin with with the exception of my valves being all out of adjustment.

Sooo I am assuming I must have messed up when timing the cams?

Any other thoughts before I pull everything apart again?

[mreid]

I don't understand the valves out of adjustment part. You adjust them or you don't. If you adjusted them the first time, just because you rotate the crank or move your distributor they don't suddenly come out of adjustment. I'm starting to get concerned about your methods.

[wacko]

The valves were adjusted based on the rotor and the Z1 mark. When I changed the rotor from cylinder 4 to cylinder 1 I readjusted the valves based on the rotor pointing to number 1 ignition wire.

[mreid]

But you can't accurately adjust the valves that way. If the rocker is not on the base of the cam lobe, the valve is not adjusted properly.

You should mark your crank pulley at 120 and 240 degrees if not already and use those marks (along with zero). Then where the dizzy points is irrelevant.

[wacko]

I was using the 120 and 240 marks but after rotating the crank 360 and the rotor 180 I thought I needed readjust valves based on the new firing order. I could have this all messed up, it's been a long day

[timmy2]

You have it all messed up from over thinking...
Either the rocker is on the lobe and compressing the valve spring or it isn't. You can do one side of the car at a time rotating the crank even without the marks if you understand how that works...

If you have the valve lash set on each rocker when it was off cam, you are permanently set no matter what you do with the dizzy.

[chkvku]

check timing but first check pop up valve if you have one if it open.

[wacko]

Ok. I appreciate all the feedback.

I think I need to take a step back and confirm where TDC is for piston #1

Next adjust valves correctly. The instructions say the valve you are adjusting should be loose, meaning it is off the cam lobe? How can I confirm the rocker is on the lobe? Visually? Dial gauge?

My fear is that one of the cams may be 180 degrees out? So when I set the valves as per the instructions in the firing order one sides (4,5,6) is not being set correctly which would require me to re-set the cam timing. I should be able to check this with a dial gauge to confirm when it is coming on cam right?

Thanks again for everyone's patience

[wacko]

double post

[timmy2]

The cam is basically an eccentric circle that looks like a raindrop with a fat round bottom and a tapered top. The part that is non circular is the lobe.
When the base (Part that rides the circle) of the rocker arm is on the round part,(Bottom of raindrop) it is off lobe.
When the eccentric part of the cam lobe (Tapered top) is pushing against the bottom of the rocker arm and lifting the base of the rocker so it toggles over and pushes in the valve, it is on lobe.

Conceptually there is a large portion of the cam where the rocker is off the lobe. (Bottom 1/2 of raindrop) Ideally you set the clearance when the rocker arm base is resting on the very bottom of the cam lobe (Raindrop) at the roundest part. (TDC for each piston in it's cylinder)

Visually you can see the cam either pushing against the rocker arm base or not.
If it wiggles in and out and you can use the backside method of measuring the clearance you are off lobe.
Maybe reading up on the theory of the backside method would help you understand the concept?

To confirm your cams are not out of sync, find TDC and set cylinder 1 valve clearances, then rotate the crank 360 and cylinder 4 should be loose and ready to be set.
Then rotate another 360 and check cylinder 1 again. then do the remaining valves as per 101 project instructions.... (120 deg rotation)

I have used a wooden dowel to find TDC on cylinder 1. Installed in the spark plug hole as you rotate the crank it will push the dowel out. When at it's furthest point out mark it and then rotate another 360 as it may come out further depending on if you were on the compression or exhaust stroke. On the compression stroke both cams are off lobe. On the exhaust stroke the exhaust valve is open. you are at TDC when both intake and exhaust valves are closed and the rod is pushed out as far as it goes.

This may help for TDC
Four-stroke engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[wacko]

When at TDC for #1 I understand that both valves for #1 will be loose and ready to be adjusted. Should the Valves for #2 and #3 be loose as well or tight when at TDC for #1

[timmy2]

2 and 3 may be partially loose or tight. They are in transition mode for another 120 or 240 degrees either coming on or off lobe.
It really doesn't matter where they are as you should focus on one cylinder at a time for now, setting the clearances as per the firing order for each.
1-6-2-4-3-5
set number 1, rotate crank 120 degrees, set number 6, rotate 120 degrees, set number 2, rotate 120 set number 4, rotate 120 set number 3, rotate 120 set number 5.
Then repeat to double check.

[wacko]

When I do the dowl test it seems like both 1 and 4 are at top dead center at the same time? is this right? I never had the bottom end apart at all and never removed crank

[mreid]

That is true, however 4 is at the top of the exhaust stroke and at least the exhaust valve is open. On some cams the intake valve may be open also as it is the beginning of the intake stroke.

[wacko]

If I am going to redo the cam timing how can I confirm I have the crank at actual TDC for number 1 or does it matter as long as it is at the Z1 mark?

[wacko]

After thinking about this If I pull the cam chain covers I can confirm TDC at #1 with the 930 stamp on end of cam correct?

[boyt911sc]

Originally Posted by wacko

If I am going to redo the cam timing how can I confirm I have the crank at actual TDC for number 1 or does it matter as long as it is at the Z1 mark?

Start at the beginning and set the crankshaft @ Z1 (compression stroke). The rotor should be pointing towards ignition wire #1 (marker). Both left and right cams should have the '930' or dot @ 12 o'clock position. These are your basic settings to begin with. Rotate cam (1-2-3) 360° (1 full revolution back to Z1 (exhaust stroke). Read your dial indicator for left cam. Now, you are ready for cam (4-5-6). Rotate cam 360° back to Z1 (compression). Read dial indicator for right cam.

Repeat multiple times to make certain that you are getting consistent values. If you are using only a single dial indicator, focus on one cam only and move to the other cam only after you are completely satisfied with your numbers. However, if you are using two (2) dial indicators, you could do 1 & 4 repeatedly.

After setting your cam timing, proceed to do your valve adjustment in 1-6-2-4-3-5 sequence (120°) intervals. Make sure you are @ TDC (Z1) compression when you do valve adjustment for cylinder #1. The rest would follow accordingly. Keep us posted.

Tony

[wacko]

Thanks Tony, I agree that is what I will do next. Unfortunately I won't get much of a chance to work on the car again until Sunday. I will update then.