Confessions of a can of worms opener

[cwinters01]

For some time now, I have had a hair to clean or replace my fuel injectors. No, there were no running issues making me want to do this (as far as I know)...at all...I just like to do stupid things. Looking thru the volume of paperwork associated with my '83 911 sc, nothing had been done to the injectors, sleeves, etc. in the 32 years of its life. I figured it would be something good I could do for the car...
The 3 injectors on the driver's side are all fairly loose, but on the passenger side they are tight as a drum. List night I finally got going on it and tackled #4, one of the really tight ones. I was able to finally unseat a very perfectly seated fuel injector, but the sleeve may as well be made out of aluminum, it ain't moving.
After all of the research, I know that one is supposed to file/grind/remove the aluminum that has been tamped down in 3 spots over the top of the sleeve (prior to removing the injector). I have done this...but the sleeve ain't going anywhere. I've read numerous posts on the subject and understand there are tools one can fashion to attempt to pull these suckers out, but there is always the risk of it breaking apart and falling into the port. I also understand that unless there were issues before, I don't even really need to remove the old sleeves...just put the new injectors/o rings in. But, I want to do it right since I have committed to doing this.
I'm at a fork: either I keep yanking on this sleeve and see if I can get it out in one piece...and then do that to all of the other likely equally painfully immovable sleeves, or I just suck it up and do a partial engine drop and remove the CIS system to get at these sleeves properly.
If you were me and decided/committed to screw with your perfectly functional FI system, what would you do?
Thanks!
Christian

[matt930s]

Leave them alone!

MattR

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by cwinters01

If you were me and decided/committed to screw with your perfectly functional FI system, what would you do?

I would do as Matt suggests but double check each connection "assembly" with carb/brake cleaner after the new injector o-ring has been lubed and installed. No change in idle all should be good.

Alternatively, implement the boyt911SC method of checking for leaks by pressurizing your intake with a few pounds of air and squirting soapy water on the connections.

If you do the "Full Tony" (CIS leak test) you may be surprised at what leaks you find across the whole of the system. This method will also find smaller leaks than the carb cleaner/idle change method.

Edit: For fun, try some carb cleaner before you disassemble the loose ones.

[grizzfan]

Like the man once said: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

Tom

[Tremelune]

Uncommit yourself.

They will begin causing problems soon enough...

[sugarwood]

For injectors, I keep meaning to buy a bottle of Techron and call it a day.

[cwinters01]

Alright. You talked me into it. I guess i wasn't as committed as I thought I was.
Bob, going to try the Carb cleaner on all the others before I pull them...should be interesting...
Thanks!

[DRACO A5OG]

Good for you, I know being OCD is tough but I am sure your baby has other more pressing issues like older bushing, ground cleaning and/or oil leaks. Heck even lube on the door hinges.

Take her out and give her a good Italian Tune Up!

RSD,

Jim

[cwinters01]

Well, was going at just replacing the injectors...just slid a new one into #4, and set to work on #1-#3, all of which were loose within the runners. When I pulled #1, the sleeve came out with the injector fairly easy. Replaced those and set to work on #2.
Removed the stakes and pulled on the injector. While the entire sleeve was loose within the runner, for some reason it wouldn't pull out...neither the injector nor the sleeve. Pulled harder leveraging boxed-end wrench and bent flat head screwdriver. F me but it finally gave and when it did, the injector and sleeve came out at the same time but a fair amount of the bottom of the sleeve was missing.
Obviously the crumbled pieces have fallen into the intake. I'm going to try the various tricks that others have suggested (small tube hooked to shop vac, sticky tape on end of screwdriver, etc.), but my guess is I'm going to have to somehow remove the runner to get in there and make sure I got everything...

[cwinters01]

OK, crisis averted. The shop vac with small tube hooked up absolutely did the trick. All pieces are accounted for from what I can tell. Question though...if by some small chance should some small (very small) plastic specs be left behind...what is the risk?

[matt930s]

Chris-

Is it worth the chance that something may or may not be left behind? I would pull the CIS and get a good look and clean-up. This will allow you to fully analyze the entire system and refresh. There are some very specific well written threads that will give you all the details you will ever need.

CIS Troubleshooting for Dummies
http://jimsbasementworkshop.com/CIS/CIShome.html

(BTW, see post 2. lol...)

Matt$R

[cwinters01]

Thanks Matt. Dummy me, it only dawned on me now that all of the responses were not in reference to me only removing the sleeves that were tight...rather to leave the injectors alone (etc.) altogether.
No big deal, I'll get it figured out.
Thanks again,
Christian

[boyt911sc]

Christian,

Since you decided to replace the old injector sleeves in situ and found the problem doing it so, my suggestion to you is do the removal and installation with intake runners off the engine. While it could be done in situ, there are risks in doing it this way. I have a '78 SC with original sleeves and o-rings. Why I have not replaced them? Simply because it was not leaking except at the injector o-rings. I replaced the o-rings and performed a pressure test.

Replacing the injector and sleeve o-rings is a prudent course of action specially if they are old and hard. With the engine installed, remove the intake runners on one side and do the other side after finishing one side. It may take longer but less headache!!!!!

Test your injectors by pulling them out and place them in suitable containers. Run the FP and observe the spray patterns of individual injector and take note of any sign of dripping after you stopped the FP. Don't just replace fuel injectors because they are old.

Whatever you do, don't tinker the fuel mixture setting. Leave it alone. After you are done, check your fuel pressures and air leak. Keep us posted.

Tony

[cwinters01]

Thanks Tony, will do...

[cwinters01]

Closing this out...pulled the 3 intake pipes on driver's side and vacuumed out ports. Replaced intake piper rubber and gaskets. Replaced sleeves, all o-rings, and injectors. On passenger side, just pulled the injectors and replaced them and o rings (didn't want to risk sleeves issues on this side). Car runs beautifully (acceleration is very crisp and responsive throughout the rev, and *seems* to pull harder). I'm sure that at least some of the injectors could have been cleaned and reused, but at $40+ per I felt ok replacing with 32 years of life in them.
Thankful that I didn't have to pull the intake pipes on the passenger side...guessing that doesn't happen without pulling the entire CIS.
Happy New Year!
Christian