Safe for FUCH to use steel lug nut ?

[jyporscheboy]

As Porsche people ,, A few of my friends talk about all things Porsche ,, We recently had a discussion about using a steel lug nut on a Fuch mag ,,, We all agree that an aluminum lug nut is the way to go !!! But ? would , could , a Fuch Mag wheel be DAMAGED by the use of a steel lug nut??? We agree that anti-seize , should be used ,and of course the right torque should be administered !! Please no Haters for this stupid subject ,, personal opinions are ok ,But we are looking for an unbiased Technical answer to this question ???? THANKS IN ADVANCE !!!!!!!

[911pcars]

If tightened properly, there is no relative movement between the steel nut and the al. wheel. Think about all the aluminum nuts on the high stress areas of the mg/al engine. Answer: none. By all means, apply some anti-seize to the friction areas (threads and ball surface). Don't overdo it. Adjust tightening torque accordingly.

MHO,
Sherwood

[aj88cab]

All the (thousands of?) cars being raced every weekend require steel lug nuts...so no, not a problem.

[vash]

I'm running steel lugs on my Fuchs. No issues.

[msterling]

Just be sure that they have the correct spherical mating surface. Out host sells them. Go easy on the anti-seize.

[Charles Freeborn]

Yes.
At track days some clubs require them (rather than alloy)
-C

[Oh Haha]

I have the steel nuts(heynow!)sold by Pelican on my wheels.

Fuchs wheels use the BALL SEAT lug nut so be sure to get the correct ones if placing an order.

As always, torque to the proper spec(94 lb ft).

I'm not an expert so I did some research on who is using them and results were good enough for me.

[cheekybird]

Steel nuts on Fuchs no problem.

[Arne2]

People have been using steel lug nuts on alloy wheels since allow wheels were invented. The alloy lugs on our Porsches are the exception, not the rule.

[78SCRSMAN]

In addition to the above posts... these wheels are hubcentric, which means, the wheel rides on the hub. The nuts are only there to keep the wheel from falling off!

[KTL]

One could argue that the alloy lug nuts are worse. Because there have been several instances of aluminum lug nuts shearing off when trying to loosen them. The nut hex shears off and all that is left is the spherical seat and no ability to actually loosen/unwind the seat.

Solution? 3/4" hole saw to the rescue to cut (yes, cringe in fear as you try not to damage your precious Fuchs wheel) the lug seat from the lug bore.

Proper steel lugs rarely ever fail.

[FrenchToast]

Originally Posted by KTL

One could argue that the alloy lug nuts are worse. Because there have been several instances of aluminum lug nuts shearing off when trying to loosen them. The nut hex shears off and all that is left is the spherical seat and no ability to actually loosen/unwind the seat.

Solution? 3/4" hole saw to the rescue to cut (yes, cringe in fear as you try not to damage your precious Fuchs wheel) the lug seat from the lug bore.

Proper steel lugs rarely ever fail.

I now keep a close eye on the alloy nuts. I've seen them torsionally twist a good amount (maybe 5-7 degrees) after presumably ~30 years of torque cycles. They're probably close to shearing on the next few torque cycles!

Steel is required by most track/DE organizations.

What you should NOT do is drive steel nuts onto an alloy wheel with an impact wrench.

[chris_seven]

I would agree that there is no issue with using a steel nut with a Fuchs wheel but you do need to lubricate the thread so that the preload is correct.

The Fuchs wheel isn't a Magnesium Alloy it is a 6082-T6 Aluminium Alloy.

There are some issues with some of the steel lug nuts that are more concerned with how they are tightened than the use of steel.

Open nuts that allow scrutineers to see that there is full thread engagement is also an issue with Race Cars.

The Febi-Bilstein nuts from the VW T4 have the correct radius of the ball end but the ball is relatively shallow.

This means if you tighten the wheel with an impact wrench (air or electric) the socket can run into the wheel and mark the surface.

The Aluminium Wheel Nuts supplied by Porsche have a deep ball end so the socket will never contact the wheel.

There may be steel wheel nuts that have a similar feature but we can't seem to find them in the UK.

We make ball-ended Grade 5 6AL4V Titanium wheel nuts which have a relatively deep ball and avoid any contact between wheel and socket.

[arrivederci]

Another bit that I learned recently when getting my car aligned. I was advised that the steel lug nuts that many sell (including Pelican) are a ball seat, but are NOT the correct radius for our wheels. They are not all the same.

We need an R14 ball seat. The alignment tech (who has worked on Porsches for many many years) showed me the contact point of the lug nuts with the wheel and it was clear that it was the wrong radius. So the contact point is a small ring around the ball - not the whole ball as designed. They will work -- we don't see wheels falling off during club races -- but frankly it isn't the right part. He said he has raised this to PCA club racing officials over the years.

I'll have set of steel nuts for sale at some point in the future as I switch back to the alloy ones with the R14 ball seat.

[911pcars]

Here's another option for those who like to play around:

Source 20 previously used Fuchs al. lug nuts that have seen better days (rounded hex, scratches, deformed, etc.).

Delete the threads from each nut (drill press or lathe), then separate the ball end from the hex (lathe). Discard the hex portion of the now separated nut. You now have 20 ball-end aluminum washers that will snuggle up to the Fuchs. Nuts are next.

Source your preferred flavor of steel, Ti, etc. M14-1.5 nut of any length to provide adequate thread engagement. In addition, there are nuts with alternate hex dimensions or drive formats available other than the factory 19mm hex wrench size.

The standard Fuchs alloy lug nuts are fine, but one advantage of this separate washer/nut arrangement is that steel or Ti are more robust materials and allow ordinary lug sockets/wrenches (as well as generic wheel locks) to be used.

YMMV.
Sherwood

[joe payne]

Rennline makes some nice steel nuts and they're black. $40.00 for a set.

[Laneco]

Originally Posted by chris_seven

We make ball-ended Grade 5 6AL4V Titanium wheel nuts which have a relatively deep ball and avoid any contact between wheel and socket.

Cost? Website?

angela

[vash]

Parts heaven. I bought mine from them. New.

[Oh Haha]

Originally Posted by joe payne

Rennline makes some nice steel nuts and they're black. $40.00 for a set.

The ones I purchased.