We arent just talking about diminished value. We are talking about additional investment, for even MORE diminished value.

I see guys spending $100k for a rebuilt backdated car, but Im not sure they are really worth that when they are done, as opposed to spending the money on a stock restoration.

Imagine you said that to somebody welding turbo flairs on a 73s 20 years ago. Would it be true today?

To some of us it is not about money...it is about what we want. I realize that I am, or could be, pissing this money away; it doesn't matter to me. If it was purely a money/value proposition, then it probably would not make sense in some cases, depending on the car. I hate to say it, but is just a car after all.

Maybe I'm just getting old. When I bought my first 911 20 years ago i didnt care much about value as it morphed into a race car. But the cars were not worth much then and prices were stable. As I complete my second race car, and values are going up, I'm having second thoughts. I probably could have spent less time and less money and ended up with a more valuable car.

OTOH: we dont normally consider cars as investments. They cost allot of money to own and usually diminish in value. People buy cars every day, for a variety of reasons, and lose money every day they own it. When they stop losing money on it they trade it in and start all over again. But that tune does in fact change when the car becomes investment grade.

It was mentioned earlier that cars are a tool of utility, not an investment. Fair enough, but why do people not make the same consideration when they buy a house? Why is a house always seen as an investment?

Well put, and I couldn't agree more.

Related to this thread topic, some guys in the Turbo forum have actually started replacing far superior, aftermarket items with stock components (turbos, intercoolers, mufflers and such) because of "the rise in value" of a 930. It seems absurd to me to even consider such a thing for car that is meant to be fun, and as someone said in a previous thread similar to this, the Porsche founders are turning in their graves right about now.

A house satisfies a need. The car is a want.

Except - you NEED the car to get to work to pay for the house.

I built a 930 engine for a guys a few years ago and talked him into keeping it all stock; the logic being there are so few stock 930s that they would be worth more down the road. He is now thankful. But he drives his car like a Yugo anyway.

Singers are going for $500k+. Most of them start life as a 964. Do you think in 20 years it will be more likely that someone will sell a Singer for $1M or do you think it will be more likely that some prospective buyer will look at it and think "they spent HOW much to butcher a 964???"

It is a useful question to ask. I have seen and read enough on this site to know that there are more than a few people who could do a very competent job of making something equalling the quality of a Singer (and probably for a lot less $$$). Granted not everyone has the time or the means but what would be the difference at the end of the day? The name on it? There is a fine line between tasteful work and a half-ass attempt.

The market is fickle. It is hard to predict what future buyers will hold dear. I was born in the '70s so the impact bumper cars were the ones on the poster of my wall as a kid. Now I love longhoods but a few years ago they were "old" looking.

Personally, if the car is nice, it is probably better to leave it. I have thought about doing body mods to my car but for economic and practical reasons it is probably better to find a car that is already lost it's value -- like someone else's project they started but never finished.

Like my wife said... "It's still cheaper than a mistress." You gotta put these things into perspective. :D

That one is hard to speculate on. Look what has happened to values of Gembellas and Strosecks. What some people thought was kewl, was not. What about Ruf and dp cars? Are they more or less valuable?

The original question is a good one. Not sure anyone knows the correct answer that will hold true in the future. So far, it seems keeping things stock is it.

On this line, I have a question. If you owned an impact bumper car that was "updated" 12 years ago to look like a 964 and was in very nice shape (high miles), would you... a) leave it alone b) backdate it, or c) put it back to stock?

Black and white
 

I after purchasing a car, you modify it from stock or even drive it, you have made a decision to spend, not invest. So regrets are not allowed.

Just a thought. I agree that I've seen cars built by individuals rivaling the quality of the Singer, but I doubt those cars had carbon fiber fenders and roof panels. I think the Singer cars will increase in value mainly due to the exclusivity of the car. More Ruf than Gemballa. Just my opinion. I think the long hood conversions values will be totally determined by quality of build. Unless we see outrageous prices for SC's in a few years I doubt many people will regret the conversions.

Actually you don't in many places. And if you do, it doesn't need to be a Porsche.

The house consume a much greater amount of financial resources over a greater amount of time and affects a greater amount of people (family) than a car. When cars cost as much as houses (relatively), then people start to think of the investment aspect. Wouldn't you agree?

I have been contemplating this for a while. I was on the path to do a full backdate on my '80 SC primarily because I love the look of the '73 RSR cars. My 911 already wears turbo fenders so the originality of it is not there. But the more I look at the market and understand buying patterns the cars from the '80s will become VERY popular when the generation that sought after them in the '80s hits their 50's. For example someone that went to high school in '85 would be 48 years old today. They probably are paying for their kids education, still have a mortgage, etc. Once those items are paid off they'll be looking for that ever so sweet ride that brings them back to their "prime days". That will be when you see the values of the impact bumper cars peak.

Anyone that has done a conversion will tell you though that it (almost) never pays in the end. A nicely done one might increase the value of the car marginally but the cost put into that level of craftsmanship will never be recooped. My conclusion, if it is done it should only be done for pure pleasure.

Sometimes it's about the right buyer. I have updated the fuse panels. There was an important reason to me. I see it as improving the car - getting rid of electrical gremlins and keeping the car serviceable in the future. If I sold the car, Buyer A might turn up their nose and say "humpf, not original" and Buyer B might say "great improvement". People who value originality are probably looking for museum pieces and not a car that can be driven.

Some mods are meant to improve things -- new fuse panels, a Seine GSK, LED instruments lights come to mind.

Other things only improve looks. I have RS door panels and Corbeau seats in my SC. People who are horrified by that can be horrified. I really don't care. When it's their car they can do whatever they want.

But I have (so far) kept all the original parts. :)

You can sleep in your car, you can't drive your house.

Impact bumper cars will increase in value but very few will actually be collectible. I drive my low mileage M491 which is slightly collectible. I enjoy driving it. When I want to sell it for the price that is right for me, it's the buyer's problem.

I don't think anyone will regret making their car the way they want it.

Lots of cars out there that are unoriginal. I picked up a '74 that had been converted to a turbo look. Not afraid to modify the car.

If you're going to backdate a car, probably easy enough to find something that already has some modifications done to it.

Shaun, that is exactly my thinking with regard to modifications I make to my car. For example; someone wants to pay me less for my 930 because I got rid of the hideous, OEM station wagon steering wheel, replaced the OEM intercooler, turbo, etc, then they do not deserve to buy my much improved ride (not that it's for sale). :)

The whole concept that we as the current car owners should preserve the machine for the enjoyment of the next owner who might be a "stock only & low mileage nerd" guy, seems upside down and backwards.