A/C Reverse The Gases in Early Model 911's

[KelogGes]

Fortunately for ensuing generations, the iconic image of a brilliant idea is not a naked Archimedes, but rather the familiar overhead light bulb, representing the “Eureka Moment” when the fog clears and clarity rushes in.

Why Porsche Early Model 911 Engineer’s or Other People over the decades or all those who tried to improve the Air Conditioning System well known lack of Condenser Surface Area MISSED THIS FACT AMAZES ME!

IF YOU REVERSE THE GAS FLOW NOT ONLY IS THE EARLY MODEL 911 A/C SYSTEM TEMPERATURE MUCH COLDER!

ALSO THE ENGINE OIL TEMPERATURE DOES NOT appreciably RISE WHEN THE A/C IS TURNED ON LIKE IT NORMALLY DOES!

I discovered this 2 years ago when thinking outside the box and tried something crazy on a 911 late at night I was working on, that had been in the back of my mind for a long time and never read or heard anyone anywhere ever did this, and it works better than I could have imagined!

I give this information freely AS A GIFT to 911 owners because I care about you and always have from my enjoyment being an early model 911 owner myself for over 25 years!

I am sorry but I am not going to answer questions about this subject now, it should be obvious and you should be able to figure it out for yourself.

I know this simple and true information when applied is going to be a game changer LoL

BELIEVE IT OR DON'T, BUT IT IS FACT!


I make Parallel Flow Micro-Channel Condensers for Early Model 911's front and rear
Reid Kelly 954 599 5235
I have been doing 911 early model aftermarket A/C engineering new technology posts here since
Join Date: Jul 2011.



I have made this separate New Thread So This New UNKNOWN A/C Information Thread IS Stand Alone and Seen By All

[djpateman]

Since it is not April first just yet, please explain how you are reversing the flow of gas in the system. I know a little about air conditioner design after working for a manufacturer in the advanced engineering group.

[wwest]

I think that's what commonly known, understood, to be a HEAT PUMP.




But in this case we're looking for more adequate cooling, not HEAT.

[Jrboulder]

What the ****

[dos531]

I was actually kind of with you on your ac project up until this.

[Ronnie's.930]

I bet this guy wishes his pal had "reversed the gasses"!

[db_cooper]

Must of just caught some "square grouper" off the beach in Ft. Lauderdale. Surely you have found something but it makes no sense.

Reversing the gas flow..like compressor high side directly to evaporator, then low side to condensers and back to the compressor? If that works at all..it would slug the compressor with liquid condensed refrigerant. Not good. The engine would run cooler I suppose..now the condensers are cold, not hot. Till the compressor locks up.

[crownarch]

Your reverse engineering leads me to believe you use it for blowing smoke up other peoples as**s.

[KelogGes]

I am not going to spoon feed you information!

This thread post is honest and true!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There is plenty of info for you, I have given to figure out easy, in what I posted if you have any real early model 911 A/C refrigeration knowledge of gases!!!

I have given a true gift to early model 911 owners with this post!!!!

If you don't have knowledge talk to someone who really does and have them help you figure this out!

I am tired of the trolls here that ruin every a/c thread here no matter what the discussion is!!!

[KelogGes]

To the NON TROLLS HERE

This is really important information I have given you as a GIFT!

Look what I am dealing with posting honest and factual information for you, notice any A/C related discussion thread here and it is always the same people with more then a thousand posts that have no life but disruption.

[Ronnie's.930]

Originally Posted by KelogGes

I have given a true gift to early model 911 owners with this post!!!!

You mean like this?

Originally Posted by KelogGes

I am tired of the trolls here that ruin every a/c thread here no matter what the discussion is!!!

What "discussion"? You noted in your opening post that you were NOT going to discuss your "epiphany" claim!

Oh, and here's a public service announcement for you - creating a thread with the sole purpose of bragging about one's self-perceived greatness IS "trolling"!

Originally Posted by crownarch

Your reverse engineering leads me to believe you use it for blowing smoke up other peoples as**s.

Exactly, Mr. Cornstarch - all smoke all the time!

[HarryD]

I must be a dodo.

AFAIK, modern mechanical AC works as follows:
1 take a gas and compress to high pressure in the compressor;
2 cool the high pressure gas until it condenses in the Condenser;
3 pass the condensed liquid through a valve so it loses pressure
4 pass the low pressure liquid through the evaporator where the low pressure liquid flashes to a gas and cools the air being blown over the evaporator.

Exactly what are you reversing? Just give me the number of the step.

[KelogGes]

You guys are are oo slow to say the least over here

Originally Posted by [B

ganun[/B];8551860]Must be using the front condenser first then going back to the rear cond then finally on to the evap.
Makes some sense to dump the most heat away from the engine, just more hose.

BINGO!!! ganun You win a cupee doll AND A GOLD STAR! You were the first to figure this out from the Simple clues I gave


This has never been done by Porsche or anyone else for that matter with this new way
UNTIL I DISCOVERED THIS FLAW AND REVERSAL OF THE GASES

THE gases always went to the rear first than the front


I AM TIRED RIGHT NOW TO PROPERLY FINISH MY CONGRADULATIONS TO YOU BUT I WILL FINISH IT IN THE MORING WHEN I RE-EDIT THIS IN THE MORNING

[wwest]

In light of recent events let's just hope for his day job KeloGes isn't holding others lives in his hands.

[DaveMcKenz]

I actually think the Reid's idea is excellent. I would have dismissed it because of the additional 20 feet of hose required. Maybe the extra hose doesn't matter. Dumping the heat away from the engine was the next step in a/c design, beginning with the 964. It worked so well that the rear deck condenser was eliminated completely.
Let us know how well this works and how bad it was to run the extra hose.
Thanks,
Dave

[KelogGes]

Originally Posted by DaveMcKenz

I actually think the Reid's idea is excellent. I would have dismissed it because of the additional 20 feet of hose required. Maybe the extra hose doesn't matter. Dumping the heat away from the engine was the next step in a/c design, beginning with the 964. It worked so well that the rear deck condenser was eliminated completely.
Let us know how well this works and how bad it was to run the extra hose.
Thanks,
Dave

Thank YOU Dave for starting to get this!

Throw Out old school early model 911 A/C design thinking come at this with a fresh mind set, you are re-routing the gases differently in direction than they ever were before in Porsches early model 911 OEM (Behr) design!

THEIR ENGINEERS SCREWED UP BIG TIME!!! As far as I know I am the first or the only one to discover this, about 2 years ago when I was working on my 911 new technology A/C system designs


NO EXTRA HOSE like you are thinking is really needed and you would want to use new hose anyway because OEM hose leaks because it is made for R-12 refrigerant; you would be completely rerouteing the gases and the hose and even the house fittings size would change from how they were.

FYI: For R134A refrigerant the molecules are much smaller so you would want to use barrier hose instead of OEM R-12 hose anyway, and if you used "reduced barrier hose" the hose would even be much lighter due to less plys if you decided to use "reduced barrier hose" with; "Standerd size barrier hose" which has more plys the house would be heavier than "reduced barrier hose"

It is up to you to decide if you want to use standard size or reduced size "barrier hose"

Personally I like reduced size barrier hose because its lighter and much easier to route

[Pazuzu]

Originally Posted by KelogGes

Thank YOU Dave for starting to get this!

Throw Out old school early model 911 A/C design thinking come at this with a fresh mind set, you are re-routing the gases differently in direction than they ever were before in Porsches early model 911 OEM (Behr) design!

THEIR ENGINEERS SCREWED UP BIG TIME!!! As far as I know I am the first or the only one to discover this, about 2 years ago when I was working on my 911 new technology A/C system designs


NO EXTRA HOSE like you are thinking is really needed and you would want to use new hose anyway because OEM hose leaks because it is made for R-12 refrigerant; you would be completely rerouteing the gases and the hose and even the house fittings size would change from how they were.

FYI: For R134A refrigerant the molecules are much smaller so you would want to use barrier hose instead of OEM R-12 hose anyway, and if you used "reduced barrier hose" the hose would even be much lighter due to less plys if you decided to use "reduced barrier hose" with; "Standerd size barrier hose" which has more plys the house would be heavier than "reduced barrier hose"

It is up to you to decide if you want to use standard size or reduced size "barrier hose"

Personally I like reduced size barrier hose because its lighter and much easier to route

Um...my underbelly condenser is the first one in the gas flow path, so I guess someone else discovered this AND IMPLEMENTED IT IN A WORKING SYSTEM long before you did.

[wwest]

Credit where credit is due... Now that we have a more complete explanation of "reversing the gases" means vs the opening TEASER post.

Currently the gases just exciting the compressor will be a lot hotter than the gases reaching he front condenser. Therefore using the newly suggested gas routing would, indeed, increase the efficiency of the front condenser, while at the same time reducing the engine heat load.

That is, of course, provided one hasn't already installed one of the available aftermarket front condensers that blocks most of the cooling effects from natural forward motion airflow.

But I fail to see why this obviously expensive and complex idea is a better solution than the less expensive and much more elegant design idea to use the cabin heat blower to both raise the efficiency of the rear condenser while simultaneously diverting the resulting heat around the engine, just as is already being done to good with the '84-88 model years.

[Ronnie's.930]

Originally Posted by Pazuzu

Um...my underbelly condenser is the first one in the gas flow path, so I guess someone else discovered this AND IMPLEMENTED IT IN A WORKING SYSTEM long before you did.

Next Reid will tell us that he discovered the earth is round - what a "gift" that will be!

[DaveMcKenz]

No extra hose?
It seems the hose will go from compressor to front condenser, then back to rear deck condenser, the forward again to receiver/drier, then evaporator.
That is pretty much one extra trip front and back to pick up rear condenser. I'm not sure that's really a problem, but it does mean extra hose, unless I am missing something. (Which is very possible.)
Dave