**cked by PAP

Fritz · 10-31-2002, 04:09 PM

I've bought several used parts (struts, door handles, misc) from PAP in Georgia and was satisfied with the service until now.

This was such a gross scr**ing I cannot sit still.

In April I ordered from Joe at PAP a ducktail. It would be a replica RS custom ordered using a metal frame from a non-ducktail lid and have a new fiberglass ducktail grafted/bonded onto it.

He took my order and charged my credit card. For a couple of months I heard very little that it was under order. In summer I heard that he was having trouble with the guy who made them but that he had a real RS one he was looking at. It was in Virginia and took several weeks for Joe to get it and then several more weeks for Joe to tell me it was not a metal frame one but a 100% fiberglass replica.

That was not what I wanted or what I paid for so Joe told me he would get the replica made. For the past 3 months I have been hearing that it was in process but that the guy was an "artist" and can't be rushed.

I have called Joe almost every week for the past 2 months telling him my car was getting bodywork done and painted and that the ducktail was going to miss and give me a refund. Every week he would say it is almost done and send it.

Now, I've got my car back from the painter (2 weeks) and a box arrives from PAP.

Is it my ducktail? NO it is a 100% fiberglass one with the KARROUSEL company sticker inside. Not from the guy in Florida who makes the replicas on metal frames. Did I get a note or a message from Joe as to what was coming??? NO

Sorry to vent but when you own a P-car you get dealt crap from some people. This is one person I am not going to take it from.

If I wanted a fiberglass one I would have ordered through our host or GT (a company an hour away from me.

Rando · 10-31-2002, 04:22 PM

Hmmmm timely post... I wouldn't say I was **rewed but I ordered a "heater blower motor" advertised on ebay... Great price and shipped right away... Got it in 4 days so I'm thinking cool ! They listed the P part number but didn't verify the part number assuming (a$$ of me) that a p parts place would list the correct part number. Well as it turns out I was having some service done to my pcar today and asked the wrench if they'd put the new blower motor in while it was there... The wrench called about 1 1/2 hours ago to inform me that the part that PAP sent me was actually the AC evaporator motor... NOT a heater blower motor

Will be calling PAP early in the morning to see if I can get a refund ! It's starting to get chilly here in So CA and needed the heat so I can continue to drive my cab year round (cold hair but warm feet

) Not today anyway...

Kurt B · 10-31-2002, 04:25 PM

I hear ya, and that sucks. It's one thing for him to just hunker down and tell you X months into it that hey, it's not going to happen, and give you your money back...I'm sure you'd have a few words.

You gonna stick with the all glass tail and just go with it? Whatever you do, get it painted an on the car, so all of the paint on the beast gets settled, faded, worked in the most natural way possible. Good luck.

75eleven · 10-31-2002, 05:38 PM

Fritz- I have been fighting with this guy for 1 1/2 years trying to get my money back for a set of P/Cs that he sent me were wrong.He sold me a set of piston and cylinders that were supposed to be from a 1981 SC. When I got them they were the early 8.5 to one compression. After about a month Joe agreed to exchange for the correct ones. After about six weeks he sends me a set of SC cylinders and 3.2 pistons. No way will this work, I send them back and ask for refund. I waited another month no refund, no responce to letter I sent him , no answer to Emails. After 90 days the Credit card company says they cant back charge him to get your money back. I even filed a complaint with better business inwhich he did not respond to them either. You might want to try to file a complaint. Maybe if they get more complaints about him somebody might do something about his business practices. Just thought I let you know what you are into with this guy and good luck. Joe W

MBAtarga · 10-31-2002, 06:14 PM

I have posted on this board before about this "operation". My experience was frustrating, but fortunately didn't involve a large amount of money, and since I was there in person, I was able to walk away without wasting my money. I was told I was just "stupid" for not making the purchase.

This outfit operates in a remote area North of metro Atlanta, behind a six/eight foot tall wood picket fence, with no sign. I called for directions and they explained their location to me. I asked about it once on premises, and they said they "prefer" to deal with folks over the phone or internet, as they were not set up to deal retail directly. To me, that meant - no sign, so we don't have to worry about folks finding out where we are....

My 2 cents.

marcesq · marcesq's Garage

About a year ago I bought used hard lines and a carrera oil cooler from Joe, and paid by credit card. The first cooler that arrived was clearly damaged, and after returning it, I waited for about 8 weeks for the replacement.

Joe promised that it was pressure tested and was in great shape. When it arrived it had 2 HOLES on the tire side. Returned the holey one and waited for a replacement. 3 weeks later he says that he doesn't have another cooler, and why don't I just buy a new one for an extra $xxx. I caved just to get the cooler, plus I had wasted enough time on the guy. I sold the set up in favor of one supplied by Dr. T.

Needless to say, I will never deal with them again.

For the memory banks.

1973911s · 10-31-2002, 06:35 PM

I purchased a few items from them, and they shipped quick. The problem is they would say it was a part for a 73 and it would come and it wasn't

Michael

catuck · catuck's Garage

Thanks to all for this thread. I am in the market for an engine and was about to e-mail them. Boy, that was a close call.

nostatic · nostatic's Garage

I emailed them with a question about a part on one of their ebay auctions and never got a response. That was enough of a red flag for me.

btw, shouldn't we all be sued by him pretty soon because of this thread?

widebody911 · widebody911's Garage

Wow, I guess I'm lucky that they've ignored my emails at the speed of light. The spam rennlist every few days with new inventory announcements, but it seems they don't check replies to those spams.

Epster77 · Epster77's Garage

sounds to me like he should be getting sued....I never ordered anything from him and never will at this point

feelyx · 10-31-2002, 07:52 PM

So would this thread be considered a P A P SMEAR?!!??!

Tim in Sac

Elombard · 10-31-2002, 08:27 PM

I have seen and heard some very strange things about Joe and his operation for years. I cant give details because I was hearing them second hand. I am in Atlanta and I guess I will only buy if I am there in person and familiar with what I am getting. he does have a beautiful set of 40mm webbers on e-bay right now!!

beamonk · 10-31-2002, 08:30 PM

I dealt with them several times in the past, oh, about 8-10 years ago. Everything was good.Last few transactions were not so good and had heard some bad stuff about them lately. Have had hell getting through on the phone to them lately. I wanted a used seat belt on a wed. am before the Saturday D.E. in Talledega. Spoke to Joe and he said it will be there Friday. I am 3.5 hours away. didn't receive it until the following Tuesday. Seatbelt was locked up and fuzzy. I have left messages over 10x now, no response. Next time in Atlanta I will go by to give them a cussing, I am sick of their s&%*tty service. We spend to much money with these people to put up with bad attitudes and even worse service.
John

Wilbur888 · 10-31-2002, 10:29 PM

Well,

I bought front & rear windshield seals from them off eBay. They were slow to respond to my emails, but shipped the item on time and it arrived well packaged and as promised.

I think it's almost a one-man show and he sounds overworked, but these are real horror stories!

scottb · 11-01-2002, 12:11 AM

Doesn't a buyer have recourse through his/her credit card company if the seller ships the wrong parts and won't make it right? Can't the charge be disputed?

Joeaksa · 11-01-2002, 04:53 AM

If the credit card company will not help you out due to the sale being too long ago, you can usually sue anyone in small claims court in your area and he has to respond in your local court. If they do not respond the judgement is against them and the Police/SO in their area will go "discuss" it with them.

You guys who have been beating your heads against the wall with them trying to get your money back should resort to small claims court and legally force him in line. If enough of you guys do this then he will stop selling crap. I have ordered from him before and gotten the stuff but it was nickle and dime stuff and I would be torqued had it been something major.

Joe

Sunroof · 11-01-2002, 06:24 AM

I am not here to defend the guy but I have been dealing with PAP for over 10 years. For Atlanta folks, they were on Buford Highway outside of the perimeter and had a great dismantling and used parts operation well before the internet showed up. For guys like me, I used to run in back and pluck out a switch, relay, or small part dash or interior part from a wreck and get a great deal. I think my 1985.5 944 was mostly kept alive with PAP used stuff (it was retired with 345,000 miles).

I have been to the North Georgia shop many times and they have several P-owner sales folks who are just as enthusiastic about the cars as any owner. Behind that high wooded high fence is a huge warehouse (I believe it was a school warehouse one time) and a huge collection of wrecked P-cars organized by model. The place is very large and well stocked, but rather then dealing with retail counter sales, he has gone almost 100% mail order. Anyone can go up on a saturday if they call first and see if Harry or Joe will be in.

In my experince with PAP, and I purchased hundreds and hundreds of dollars of stuff between my 944 and 911's I have never had a problem with the quality of merchandise or returns.

I regret hearing about the bad experiences, but I will say, I know many folks who have been satisfied as well. I know Joe is big in the PCA here, was a 356 national racing champion and knows his stuff...............

My 2 cents.

Bob

Fritz · 11-01-2002, 06:57 AM

I have spoken to Joe plenty of times and given him plenty of opportunities to cancel the order and refund my money.

Once he gets his hands on the money he will not refund it.

He has had several months and dozens of phone calls to make it right.

What did I get instead? A ducktail that is no where near the part we agreed on.

Did he call and give me a heads up of what he was sending? No

Like I said, the previous orders were for things he had in stock and he shipped them right out. This was a custom part he offered to get (he used to have it listed on his web site) and took my money for. Now he can't deliver but won't make it right.

He went beyond his capabilities and will not step up and make it right.

Ask him where my metal frame ducktail is for me please? This was not small money and I am not going to let him get away with ripping me and my family off. This is money we are talking about. The stuff most of us work long hours for. This is the stuff we use to feed and house our children. I set money aside for this project and he stole it from me.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Does he still attend the PCA races?

Does he go to the PCA meetings?

Tell him he should treat customers/people/fellowp-car owners better.

BGCarrera32 · 11-01-2002, 07:15 AM

I picked up some Turbo tie rods and an exhaust pipe tip from them on ebay...saved a little dough...after reading this stuff tho I probably will say I'm lucky and not order from them again...