Should I replace rusty exhaust studs on my "new" B&B exhaust?

[sugarwood]

First, I am hoping to identify what exactly my aftermarket exhaust is all about.
The 2nd post will contain pics of the rusty bolts in question.

The PO replaced the stock exhaust about 10 years ago.
The stainless parts of the exhaust still look brand new.
The receipt says B&B. Is that the same thing as Billy Boat exhaust?
SSI exhaust is a totally different brand, correct?

Here are some pics of the system.
The heat exchangers and muffer/tailpipe are obviously stainless replacements.
But, are those stock exhaust manifolds? They are not stainless steel.
Do you think they installed the new heater boxes around the OEM exhaust manifolds?



Here is the exhaust tip and muffler.
I am not a big fan of the massive chrome exhaust tip.
The combo is $999 at Auto-Motion (P900142) so I am not replacing the muffler.
Is is possible to replace just the tip with something more subdued and stock looking?
Got any suggestions?

[sugarwood]

Ok, here are the rusty exhaust studs coming out of the cylinder.
They bother me since they look like a dead tooth amid a brand new looking exhaust.
Is this another clue that the exhaust manifolds/headers are original to the car?
Plus, if I ever ran into a situation where I needed to remove the exhaust, I'd be dead in the water.
Like if I had to remove the bumper and muffler to open a stuck engine lid, that would be a problem.

Is it a big job to have a mechanic replace these?
It seems very hard to get to all 3 cylinders.
This is the most visible one.


Here is a rusty bolt that attaches the headers to the muffler.
I assume this was new, so how can it get so rusty?
Were these just some cheap ass bolts that were used?
Would you replace these bolts?
What type of bolts would you replace them with?

[sugarwood]

In summary, here are my 3 questions:

1) Can you verify what sort of aftermarket exhaust system I am running?

2) Can I replace just the exhaust tip? If so, what can I use? I'm not sure what will fit onto the B&B muffler.

3) Are those the original exhaust manifolds? Or are they headers? How can I tell the difference?

4) Should I pay a mechanic to replace the 6 rusty exhaust studs (on each side) from the cylinders?

5) Should I try to replace the 2 rusted bolts (on each side) that attach the headers to the muffler?
This job seems within reach. I might even be able to remove the bolts without a Dremel.

[Trackrash]

What year car?

1. I believe that exhaust tip can be replaced. Others with more experience may chime in.

2. Those are not Porsche headers. They are headers with a heater box.

3. I would try to save your exhaust studs, assuming they are still ok. Wire brush the threads and see if they clean up and a nut will work on them. I have found that anti-seize brushed on the exposed threads does a good job of protecting them.
They are a biatch to replace. Involving drilling, tapping, and lots of profanity. There is a good chance that someone could botch the job and make things worse. If the motor was apart, it might be a no brainer. to replace them.

4. If it were me, I would replace the bolts to the muffler. I have had good luck with stainless in those locations.

[Oh Haha]

If it were me I would leave the rusty bolts/nuts at the heads alone. I know they don't look pretty but if they seal leave them until you need to remove them.

The tip could be replaced by a competent muffler shop with whatever you want. The pipe and tip will slide out of the muffler.

The bolts that attach the headers to the muffler could be done in the driveway in a few hours. Use SS hardware with a dab of anti-seize.

[ClickClickBoom]

Galvanic corrosion, lots written here and everywhere else too.

[Bill Douglas]

I would leave them well alone.

This is the sort of mini project that quickly becomes a great big expensive one.

[michael lang]

I agree with everyone here, you are better off leaving the manifold studs alone. If you start messing with them, as corroded as that one is, a month's worth of soaking with PB Blaster isn't going to help that thing. One or more will end up breaking and the next thing you know you will be posting about hosting an engine drop party and the pizza and beer will be on you. Just leave it be, you can't see it while your driving, and it's doing it's job. You're wise to not open a can of whoop ass because that's exactly what that stud/nut will do.

[sugarwood]

Thanks for the guidance. I just seems weird that if my car had aftermarket exhaust headers installed only 2000 miles ago, you would think the exhaust studs were cleaned during that job. Just seems weird they are SO rusty after only 2000 miles, and being garaged that entire time.

In any case, it sounds like the exhaust studs are a no go zone, and a job for a professional. I was never planning on doing that myself, but was asking if I should pay a pro to replace them. You guys are saying it's not worth paying someone to do it, since it is a major job, since the studs are likely to break? Is replacing exhaust studs a job that pretty much requires an engine drop?

Do you guys think it's low risk to attempt replacing the headers->muffler bolts? The are easily accessible and can be ground down, if need be. Plus, they are not studs but just bolts. Again, those are definitely new from the muffler install, so it's bizarre to think how they got so rusty, so quick. Do you think they actually reused the original bolts??

Any other details on identifying my exhaust system? He installed a Weltmeister chip after the exhaust change, but I wonder if it's optimally matched to the new system. If I got a Wong chip, I would get the 93 octane with headers Wong chip, right? I am not sure if I have headers or an exhaust manifold.

[john walker's workshop]

I deal with way worse than that all the time. If you really need to remove the exchangers, be sure to use oxygen/acetylene to heat the nut red before attempting remove it. Do one at a time and you should not break any studs. In a rare instance, some actually come loose with just a squirt of penetrant. you can try it, but don't lean on the wrench too much. As far as replacing the studs goes, best to let sleeping dogs lie.

[Cook&Dunning]

I would say you have B&B BillyBoat headers and muffler. I have attached a pic of my car - This is a track car I am bringing back to street. I agree with you that the tips are big and ugly. I think in a race application my set up was good - my headers are 1.75" diameter, but for street I think the combo of headers and muffler sacrifice low end torque. ON the B&B website, 1.75 is the size indicated for my 3.2. I have read a lot on the forum and my take is that the quality of the headers are pretty good, the muffler not so much. Meaning you could probably sell the headers, but the muffler is scrap. Which is probably a good thing because the muffler also weighs a ton.

I cut the flange and elbows off the B&B muffler took it to a muffler shop and they fabbed up this magnaflow for me Jack Olsen style. It cost me $200 all in and probably weighs half. This is a temporary measure for me as I am going back to stock headers and Euro premuffler.

Just an idea if you decide to tackle the exhaust tip redo.

[sugarwood]

Cook, thanks for the info. I'm not looking to replace any part of my exhaust, as this is a big dollar item, and a low functional yield. But, I may look into replacing my tailpipe with a simple steel pipe, since that is viable and relatively low cost.

Last thoughts on replacing the headers->muffler bolts? The are easily accessible bolts (not studs) and can even be cut off, if need be.
Just don't use stainless on stainless? Just get copper bolts or something? Would you replace the crusty gaskets also? Will there be a lot of play if bolt is cut off?

[Cook&Dunning]

I went with factory nuts, bolts and gaskets. I torqued them to 17lbs (that was the number for my Cayman exhaust, so I figure it is probably good) 2 of the three on each side are pretty easy to get at, 3rd one a bit harder, but not too bad.

[gtc]

Originally Posted by sugarwood

Last thoughts on replacing the headers->muffler bolts? The are easily accessible bolts (not studs) and can even be cut off, if need be.
Just don't use stainless on stainless? Just get copper bolts or something? Would you replace the crusty gaskets also? Will there be a lot of play if bolt is cut off?

Stainless on stainless is fine.
My B&B's came with a set of hard copper gaskets that were good for repeated use... you might contact them for a set of these. A lot of people have reported bad customer service from B&B, but my several dealings with them were just fine.
They could also probably sell you a plain outlet pipe without the rolled tip.

[Trackrash]

Has no one heard of anti-sieze? I would think any "pro" would use it.

I used it on my exhaust studs in 1985 after I rebuilt my motor. Two years ago I had to remove my heat exchangers. Every nut came off with only a ratchet. No stripped threads, no broken studs, no torch.

[shadowjack1]

I have used anti-seize on my last top end. Every time I do a valve adjustment I loosen and retighten all the bolting on the H/E. Been doing this for years. It just takes a few mins. Works for me.

[Dpmulvan]

I have just spent the last two days trying to get my heat exchangers off and I still have one side to do. You couldn't get those off with the motor in the car if you wanted to.

[Cook&Dunning]

Has no one heard of anti-sieze? I would think any "pro" would use it.

Yes, anti-seize on all of the exhaust to header bolts, and when I pull the B&B headers off it will be going on the studs

[sugarwood]

I will try to replace the header->muffler bolts, and I think that should be safe.
They are less rusty than the studs, and might come off with just a socket.

It just bugs me that the exhaust studs are only going to get more rusty from here.
I have no plans to ever replace the exhaust, but a top end valve job needs to remove the exhaust, right?
If a pro mechanic ever needs to remove the exhaust, it going to be a *****, right?
Maybe I will try to wire brush the studs, but some of them are blocked by the heat exchangers.

[86 ssinit]

It's a billy boat headers and muffler set up. I installed the same system on my sons 83. we did it about 2 years ago and my son is replacing the muffler bolts with stainless bolts soon because of rust. Soak them with pb blaster for 2 days and they should come loose. Just had a valve adjustment done and my mechanic didn't say anything about removing the exhaust. As for the studs billy boat has a special tool for removing the nuts. Without it some of them are in really hard places to reach. I think some of those nuts took me over 2 hours to tighten without the tool. I don't think I could remove them now without the tool. Good luck.