Budget to build this car

[1973911s]

What type of a budget would you give your self to build a car like this?

[Tim Walsh]

I think wayne's building a car like that or thinking about it

edit here's the link
Okay, he're what I want to do...

[1973911s]

Lets try this. I was thinking a 3.0 or larger motor.

[nostatic]

well, from the photo you could take a rusty T ($5K), drop a tired SC motor in ($3K), buy a fiberglass ducktail lid and some decals and you're done.

Looks like under $10K!

All seriousness aside, the devil is in the details...depends what you want to end up with. I believe Wayne was talking about $20-25K to build himself a R-gruppe type car. I think that is on the low side, but he *is* getting parts cheap. Seems like the cars I've seen have had much more than that in them. And when they go up for sale, the price is about half of what it cost to build. The usual wisdom is to buy someone else's project.

[1973911s]

I was thinking of a budget of 30K. I have found a few cars, but there is just to much to do to make them into what I want. This car is on ebay at this time.

Michael

[silverc4s]

I would say that you would need the following:

Item -------------- Low - High Estimate
1969 - 73 shell, non rusted $3000 - $6000
2.7 litre RS clone motor $8000 - $16000
915 trans, limited slip $1500 - $3000
Brakes $1200 - $2500
Suspension $1200 - $3000
Bodywork & Paint $5000 - $15000
Interior $1500 - $4000
Wheels & tyres $1800 - $4000
Misc & unforseen $1000 - $5000

Total Estimate is: $23,000 to $58,500

So, the range as I see it, is pretty wide. It depends on what you are able to find, what you are able to do yourself, (few of us have ALL these skills), and how well you can negotiate for the various parts of the project.
Most of these numbers were based on the experiences I have gained over 3 semi-restorations, NONE as ambitious as a true RS clone would likely be...

[Early_S_Man]

The only problems I see with Bill's list is for the wheels & tires, and 915 Transaxle ... the cheapest rebuilt 'race' 915 I have seen with close ratios and ZF limited-slip has been $3600, and they can run $5K ready to bolt-in, outright! For an ideal 'drivers' RS' cllone the transaxle is a lot more important than the interior, paint, or brake 'upgrades' ...

These days, ideal wheels would be 7 & 9 x 16 Fuchs with polished centers and refinished anodizing ... quite a bit more than $4K with state-of-the-art tires, I suspect!

$30K would be a good starting budget ...

[silverc4s]

Warren,
Your points are well taken, on both the transaxle $$$$ and the Fuchs costs..

My low end costs assumed that you used the 915 you got with your "$3000" beater and had it rebuilt only - the low end is not going for an actual RS clone" if you will; only one that runs well & looks like an RS from 20 feet.. Likewise the engine may be ANY rebuilt MFI engine, 2.2, 2.4, 2.7 as the case may be. Suspension, brakes, etc.. will just be repaired / rebuilt "as needed", NOT RS'ed in the low end example necessarily.

We may scoff at this approach, but I recall a car that was active in all the club events when i lived in San Jose - the most gorgeous white / blue RS around, nice sound, etc. Pop the deck lid and a totally stock 2.2 T engine was sitting in place untouched! Owner was planning to do the mechanical upgrades later - wanted the "look" sooner. Okay by me....

Bottom line is I agree with Warren - Plan on $30K, and if you can stand that, you may get the car finished with a minimum of guilt regarding your "investment"...

[Jack Olsen]

I think 30K is plenty. But the rule going in should be: have a sctrictly-defined goal for what its primary function is going to be. If it's a weekend fun car for runs thorugh the country, that's one thing. If you want to win stoplight races, that's another. If it's a race car, then that's something else all over again.

It gets expensive (ask me how I know) when you start saying things along this line: 'I want it to look great, go fast, be ready for occasional track days, and be civilized enough for daily driving. A race- or autocross-winning 911 is very expensive, but a 'Swiss Army Knife' version can be the most expensive of all.

[Elombard]

We need more details about the car you want to build!! I think you could do a cool street car occasional DE car for $15K if you do a good bit of stuff your self. You could buy a cool one for $15 and put $5K in it with carefully selected used parts doing alot of the work yourself and have a great car. How anal are you? Can you deal with a "tired" SC motor for a few years, get some of the other stuff done and then rebuild the SC motor how you want for $7-$8K later. Or drive it with the Stock 2.2, 2.4 for a few years and put in 3.6 and go nuts!!

[Bill Verburg]

I think that you have been given some great advice and accurate estimates in these posts. I only want to add that I happen to know where there's a nice clean 964 engine that would love to have a home in such a vehicle.

964 in a 76 Carrera chasis

[Todd Simpson]

I agree $25 to $30K is a good estimate. Another thing to keep in mind is the stock stuff you take off helps fund the project.

[ted]

Cash is King if you have 30 large now. Go out and find a car with 45k plus into it and buy it. Instant gratification.
You get a great value and avoid years of building hassles.
Buy race tires with the $$$ you save!

[mlangner]

Guys - You gotta cut it out with the RS clones. There aren't going to be any tubs left for those of us who haven't gotten around to doing our 2.0 vintage race cars.

How about only hot rodding Targas?

Leave dem 69 coupes for race car restorations! I may need to start a new club. SFTPOL2.0911sFRCC! Society For The Preservation Of LWB 2.0 911s For Race Car Conversion

Otherwise known as "Soft Pole Two Point Oh Nine Elevens Ferk"

Of course we could debate the name for about 8 Billion posts if anyone is interested

[ted]

Bought it flared ML, you have a good point though.
Happy tub hunting!

[Wayne 962]

Right. I figure a good early T car scrapped (starting, lets say $6500) with the engine out. Add a 993 drivetrain for $12K including G50. Paint, wheels, and an SC/Carrera suspension and you would get to low-to-mid 20's...

Of course, I would rather buy someone else's project.

And why do an RS clone engine for $12K, when you can put in a 3.6?

-Wayne

[Matt Holcomb]

Originally posted by Wayne at Pelican Parts
And why do an RS clone engine for $12K, when you can put in a 3.6?

-Wayne

Well, you can get 270-280 reliable horsepower out of an MFI 2.7, which weighs considerably less than a 3.6 motor. Some people think it's worth paying a bit more to have a modified version of one of the best engines Porsche ever made, while some people don't.


Matt Holcomb
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[atlporsche]

wayne's exactly right, wait for someone else to try it, and give up, then unload it all really cheap.

sjd

[AES]

The 2.7 no matter how modded will never have the torque of a 3.6. torque is king unless you have unlimited gearing. If you are building to class rules you always bump along the upper limit of displacement. For a street hotrod there is no rule.

[jluetjen]

The rational part of me tends to agree about buying someone else's project after they've thrown in the towel.

But...

After looking around at the mods that a lot of people put on their cars, part of me doesn't want to inherit someone else's poor decisions. You know what I mean, the...
* 6 point cage that welded to the floor with undersized pads.
* The 3.6 motor built up on a 2.0 mag case.
* The rear flares which are too wide/narrow for my tastes.
* The 16 inch wide rear wheels mounted on stock steel trailing arms and mounting points.
* The lousy repaint.
* The massively stiff T-bar suspension or worse coil-overs without the proper shell stiffening
* etc

(Note that if you are looking for a street only car, your list would be different, but for my interest in "Track Cars" ... ) This is a list of some of the dodgy things that I've seen which would need to be fixed prior to doing it right. I would hate to be Warren looking for a car since he's forgotton far more then the rest of us have known. What will he see for mistakes???

It's widely accepted in industry that rework costs a lot more then doing it right the first time.

I guess part of me asks -- why even go there? If you are going to build it, build it once and build it right!