New guy looking at a '75 2.7

[J. Perrault]

Hey guys,
Im somewhat new at posting on Pelican and been looking at 911's for years.
The car in question is a '75 with a 2.7 I looked at/drove this morning.
Ive read a little through the years and realize that they are not the most desired 911's, with Pulled head studs and ungalvanized bodies.
I know the rule is to buy the newest/you can afford.
However, after watching prices escalate over the past five years, I feel the price the gentleman is asking on this car isn't unreasonable. I plan on establishing a P.P.I before the trigger is pulled.

Just how expensive do these 2.7 engines get ? Do the engines really have to come out to replace the clutch assembly ? Do you absolutely have to rebuild the engines or how far can you get by with pulled head studs and oil leaks ?

The pros:
Its a hardtop coupe
Engine sounds great to my untrained ear
no smoke on start up
Car appears to be structurally solid underneath and clean
all body trim is in place
paint is good
Newer brakes
straight body
car pulls good and stops

The cons:
Oil underneath
owner claims its going to need a clutch (and grinded on quick shifts )
Car runs a bit on the hotter side
no heat
no A.C
1/2" tear or rot hole front pass side near control arm
says its missing rear sway bar ?

I'm sure there's a few more things.
I know theres not a whole lot you can say without seeing the car, but any story's about mid year 911's and the 2.7 would be greatly appreciated.
Wanted to hold out for an SC or 3.2 but this is all too tempting.
Thanks everyone !

[fanaudical]

Some quick answers for you:

YES - Engine and transmission should come out to repair the clutch. It's possible to do so without removing both, but it is much easier to remove both and clean up a bunch of stuff while you're in there. Grinding on quick shifts probably indicates some other issues with the gearbox, not necessarily the clutch.

A good PPI is essential to fully understand what is going on with this car. Don't scrimp on this if you're serious about the car. It's worth the $3-400 price to understand what the real condition is.

As soon as you have visible rust, you have lots of invisible rust elsewhere. (A PPI will help find that.)

[timmy2]

Tear or rot up front means a new pan, may mean a lot more
Rear sway bar gone due to tear or rot as well?
Definitely get a proper PPI.

[c0metdot]

All galvanized 72 and up?

[GT3DE]

Galvanized started in 77

[J. Perrault]

Thanks guys.
This tear was so small, and there was virtually no rust at the site.
I know the "while your there" factor with my current car, but from decent to apocalyptic... what have you guys spent $ on a clutch assem. replacement ?
Read that it can turn into disassembly of the engine for studs and seals. My best guess is 15k ?
Exhaust/heat exchangers ?
Yes- the P.P.I has to happen, but just want to get an idea of cost from Pelican folks.
Thanks for the fast response from a great community
-Josh P

[javadog]

Originally Posted by c0metdot

All galvanized 72 and up?

Originally Posted by GT3DE

Galvanized started in 77

No, and no. Galvanizing started on some panels in the early 1970's and the full shell was galvanized by 1977. It's a bit irrelevant really, as by now even the galvanized cars can be rusty in a lot of spots. It's probably more important where the car lived it's life (climate) and how it was used. Never in rain? Washed often? Etc.

JR

[javadog]

Clutches can run a grand, or more. Most people usually replace the pressure plate and the smart ones replace the flywheel. Figure at least $500, plus parts.

JR

[javadog]

The $64 question on a mid year car is usually what has been done to it already. Few have not had an engine rebuild by now, most have had a transmission rebuild. IF you could provide a little more history, we could give you better advice.

Was the car originally sold in California, or elsewhere?
Where has it lived the majority of its life?
What's the mileage?
Any major engine or transmission work done to this point?
Does the current owner have much history for the car?
Fairly stock, or modified?

JR

[J. Perrault]

Javadog,
I pulled the ultimate bone head move and didnt get the VIN yesterday.
Owner claims to be 4th owner, and that its been in the area most of it life.
130,000 miles
Stock, no mods
Unfortunately :No engine work
No transmission work
No records

[Uncle Enzo]

With no records showing an engine build I would have a PPI done to really see whats going on. Mids are great cars but I would run if the motor had not been opened up and all the 2.7 short commings addressed.

[rockreid]

if I am able to obtain another project it sounds like the sort of candidate you are looking at right now, a mid year 2.7. For me however, this purchase would be an automatic remove and teardown of the engine.

Now that I have my 2.4T under my belt I feel I have a lot firmer grasp of these cars. And I feel the security of knowing the 2.7's shortcomings would be addressed would be a load off my mind. It would also allow the possibility of performance upgrades.

[javadog]

Well, if it wasn't originally a California car (with the thermal reactor exhaust) it's worth a look. I'd have a thorough inspection done by a shop that is very familiar with old 911s. Plan to spend at least 4 hours of labor time on that. At a minimum, do this:

remove upper and lower valve covers to inspect studs, rockers and guides
compression and leakdown tests, warm
identify all oil leaks
smoke test the intake, if possible
check fuel system pressures cold and hot
adjust clutch play and travel and road test
rust inspection
usual inspection for suspension, brakes, other mechanical systems.

If you're lucky, you might get by with fixing the oil leaks, doing a tune-up and valve adjustment, changing the clutch, transmission fluid and any bad linkage bushings and getting some miles out of it before a rebuild is needed.

If an engine rebuild is needed, figure at least $15K. Could be more.

If a transmission rebuild is needed, figure $2.5-5k.

Brakes can eat up $1-1.5K

Suspension bushings and shocks, etc. can eat up another $2-4K.

JR

[wayner]

Without receipts, If it were me I would just assume that it needs an engine build and budget for that or a replacement. (2.7 or not, these things are getting old)

Here is some of the galvanizing on my 73

Are early cars actually galvanized?

[vash]

Originally Posted by J. Perrault

Javadog,
I pulled the ultimate bone head move and didnt get the VIN yesterday.
Owner claims to be 4th owner, and that its been in the area most of it life.
130,000 miles
Stock, no mods
Unfortunately :No engine work
No transmission work
No records

my first car was a 75. got me into the game.
mine did not have thermal reactors.
i had to install a carrera cooler, pop off valve, new tensioners, misc stuff like headlight relays/clutch cables. the $ added up fast!

knowing what i know now, i would do it over again in a heartbeat. clutch jobs are super easy..almost intuitive, if you have the torque numbers. the motor and tranny come out pretty easy.

any oil leaks? my 2.7 motor had some weird leaks, that i was told was mag case related.

[Targalid]

A lot of people think they need a new clutch when, as Javadog mentioned above, they simply need a clutch cable adjustment. Why is there no heat? Is it because the stock exhaust has been replaced? Check the engine number to see if it matches the 77 year of manufacture. You may have a replacement engine after forty years. 77 was the second year of completely galvanized body panels. Porsche had the new primer in 1977 and the paint stays on, unlike 76 with paint that literally falls off the car. You need to thoroughly check the "hole" in the front body panel. As others said, this could be a larger problem than superficially appears or it may be left over from a previously installed AC system. I have two holes where an old AC system was removed. Leaks? If it isn't leaking it means you are out of oil.

[MichaelUD]

My 76 is in great shape.
Paint is holding up quite well.
Then again, the car is and always has been parked in the garage.

[J. Perrault]

Thank you for the support everyone.
Javadog,
Thanks for the numbers and yes, I am hoping for the first scenario of valve adjust. clutch, leaks etc. (wishful thinking)
Spoke with an older guy who runs a shop 30 mins away about the P.P.I today. I knew this was a low price, but he quoted $150 for a P.P.I.
I asked about a leak down test, etc. He claimed everything he needs to know can be done in a few hours, visual and road tests are telling to the engine heath, head studs, valves etc. I'm a little disappointed, but he certainly seemed to know the older cars and did not sugar coat anything.

This is the other thing, In the North East and there's not many air-cooled cars around, at least cars that come up for sale and I swear they are more than a few thousand dollars more here.
The thing is, the owner will sell for 10k. and has not advertised the car yet.
I figure that's not too bad...until I look at the repair cost.

[faverymi]

Don't blink

Go for it.

[Dave Kost]

$10 K is cheap entry into the 911 air-cooled market today.

Buy it and drive it. Address the needed items thru the winter months.