Why are 964's always for sale for so cheap?

Gogar · 12-06-2006, 11:46 AM

I don't know if this is a "Marketplace" discussion or not, so if it is I'm sorry.

Anyway, I always scan the classifieds for fun. I someday want to buy an SC or Carrera to complement my longhood Targa.

In looking for a really nice SC or a reasonable Carrera for sale, I always see 1990 or 1991 964s for sale for about the same as Carreras.

What are the problems with early 964s? Hockey-puck Clutch? Leaky engines?

Anyway, would someone more knowledgeable about 964 issues enlighten me a little bit more? Thanks so much.

Bill Verburg · Bill Verburg's Garage

Early 964 _~'mid early 92 had some potential head gasket issues. This didn't affect all the cars and many have been fixed over the years. They are ggo cars caught in the middle between the 911 Carrera and the 993 Carrera, A little of each but all of neither.

If a ppi checks out ok and you are comfortable w/ the cars history I wouldn't hesitate.

Pingo · Pingo's Garage

Not much. I would guess that the problems on the early 964 has been addressed by the previous owner(s). I own a 1990 C2 which I love, strong engine, excellent handling and brakes.

The main issues with the early cars/engines where oil leaks between the cylinder heads and the cylinders (no gaskets on these models which turned out too be a bad idea) and problem with the early dual mass fly wheel.

I think that 964 C2 and C4 is the 911 that gives you best value for money.

juanbenae · juanbenae's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by Bill Verburg
They are ggo cars caught in the middle between the 911 Carrera and the 993 Carrera, A little of each but all of neither.

that seems to state it well

Dan in Pasadena · Dan in Pasadena's Garage

964's are the second Mid Year cars for Porsche. I know some 964 owners may object to that depiction but I think its true. They had some growing pains with the non-headgasketed engines, dual mass flywheels, breaking dual distributor belts, and...what else have I forgotten?

Having said that (and just like the '74-77 middies) these problems have all been identified by now and in many cases already addressed. Personally, I LOVE the look of a tailed 964 and wouldn't hestitate to buy one if the right car came along. But then again, I am happy with my '76 so maybe I am just different.

Dan in Pasadena · Dan in Pasadena's Garage

Forgot to add this, How could you NOT love the look of this car?:

Now, this tail is a bit over the top for my taste, but with a Turbo tail in the same color I think it would look awesome. Of course, I love orange 911's.

Scooter · 12-06-2006, 12:51 PM

The 964 is a great car. Yes, the early 964's had some fixable issues, but '92-'94 were excellent cars from the factory. I like them because they are a mix of the old style 911, yet a slightly more modern appearance, while having a much more modern drivetrain, suspension and other amenities. A nice example of 964 will not be "cheap", but it will likely be a great deal for what you get.

strupgolf · 12-06-2006, 12:57 PM

Does that orange car belong to a european Pelican? Its beautiful.

rs911t · 12-06-2006, 01:27 PM

I picked one up 2 weeks ago and so far like it a lot. Still the raw feel of a sports car with all the amenities.

Mark Davis · 12-06-2006, 01:35 PM

Is there a lot more mantanence with the C4 AWD system or is it reliable.

Thanks

Mark

Bill Verburg · Bill Verburg's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by k911sc
that seems to state it well

except for the typos

Pingo · Pingo's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by strupgolf
Does that orange car belong to a european Pelican? Its beautiful.

Yes, the car belongs to a Norwegian guy. I love the color....

Zeke · 12-06-2006, 02:07 PM

Let's define what "cheap" is. 20 K may be cheap to you.....

Todd Simpson · 12-06-2006, 02:20 PM

Let's see the cheap 964's...I've searched a little and can't find much.

5 speed coupes are pretty rare. 964's came at a time when Porsche was only selling a few thousand cars a year...

Chocaholic · 12-06-2006, 02:45 PM

The 964 years represent some of the greatest Porsche's ever made. The 93 and 94 RS America comes to mind. Although designated as a 965, the 94 3.6 Turbo is one of the most collectable Porsches in recent history. Let's not forget the 93 and 94 Speedsters and I believe there was a special 964 widebody cab...can't recall the name (America Roadster?).

I used to own a 94 cab and must say that it offered the comforts of the 993 (AC) with much more of the driving feel of the Carrera. Still a little numb (pwr steering, coil overs), but much better than later iterations.

twin plugged targa · twin plugged targa's Garage

I am strongly conciderring getting one of these cars as a daily driver.'
I was told that in European 964's after 91 the issues were resolved so maybe there is some conflict as to when the problems were resolved in Europe versus USA.
After all 993's were available in 1994 in Europe!.
I have seen the RSR tail on standard 964's and must say that with the teardrop mirrors and the right wheels it 'looks right' to me!.
In the UK, old left hand drive cars can be had at a premium compared to older 3.2 Carerras and newer 993's.
I believe this was due to the glut of German cars in the mid 90's and the release of the newer 993.
I would rather have a 993, but at the same price i could have an immaculate 964 compared to an entry level 993.
I would go for a Carerra 2 as the 4 WD is uneccessary and heavy, adding more potential maintenance and more understeer!.

I strongly feel the old long hood Targa is counting its last days for me as a car which is spending too long sitting idle in the garage!

Rgds Ben

Fidalgo911S · 12-06-2006, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Todd Simpson
5 speed coupes are pretty rare. 964's came at a time when Porsche was only selling a few thousand cars a year...

I'll agree with that. Nice, well-maintained C2 coupes are hard to find. Especially for "cheap".

randywebb · 12-06-2006, 03:14 PM

"911"s with even numbers get the short end of the stick:

912, 964, 996...

Avery · 12-06-2006, 03:18 PM

I think the 964 suffers from its looks (to some) and from the fear of that head leak issue as others have already pointed out. For me, I love them as they retain the original 911 look without being "too cute" like the 993 and newer 911's. The price these days for 964's are OK with me. I picked up an awesomely prepped C4 with sport suspension and CUP wheels for $17,000. And I just helped a buddy buy another pristine C4 for only $14,000 with 114,000 miles on it. Its was a perfect as you can expect. 3.6 motor...clean style...G50 and with a few suspension tweeks...you get a Carrera Cup clone. Such a deal...

BlueSideUp · 12-06-2006, 03:27 PM

It sounds like we all need to make friends with Avery if we are going to find a good deal!

I personally think the C2 is a great car. I have been looking very closely at a lot of Carreras which as we all know are great cars as well.

A lot of people are scared off by the complexity of the C2 but personally I'm used to cars that are much more computerized and complex. The C4 is even more complex but I'm sure they are also a great car. Like anything it's just a matter of learning the car.

If I find a nice C2 before I find a nice Carrera then I'll buy the C2.

A friend of mine owned both a C2 and a C4 in the late 90s. He personally preferred the C4 for it's daily comforts and "go anywhere" ability, he just felt it was a rock solid car. His C2 had a lightweight flywheel and a lot of RS parts on it. He thought that car was a little harder to live with on a daily basis but a more involved car to drive.

How scared are you guys of a C2 that doesn't have head gaskets but does have a dry engine? Say the car has 80K on it and it's a '90 or '91 with cast metal intake manifolds.