Pelican, we have a problem...

Leland Pate · 10:07 PM

Well, I've spent a few hours now trying to figure out why I have no bright lights.
It is really handy to have both Factory wiring diagrams (in color) and the Bentley diagrams (much clearer/easier to read) at my disposal.

I was able to finally understand the current flow from the light switch to the signal stalk and on to the headlights.
I've discovered something quite disturbing... it appears that my brand-spankin' new turn signal stalk is bad.

Everything is wired properly and everything works correctly except the bright lights.
I first began being suspicious of the dimmer/turn signal switch after I noticed on the wiring diagrams that power was flowing to the low beams "and" the flasher switch. If this is the case then the problem must be a problem within the switch, as the current for the high beams flows though the low beam portion- into the flasher portion.

...If both low beam and flashers are working then.... hmmmm... somethings fishy...

So, I start poking around with the switch itself. With a flashlight and a non-conductive probe I gently press on the small copper contact tabs inside the steering column on the switch itself. With the low beams "on", I pressed on the tab and whalla... I've got high beams... Now, WTF???!!!

After this discovery, I started watching the movement of the tabs when i moved the lever from low to high beam. As I move it from low to high, it clicks like it should but it doen't move ANY of the metal tabs. I can clearly see all of the moving parts... this one has not burned out or melted like the old one did. It appears to be a defect.

Can you believe this???
It took me this long to figure it out because I JUST replaced this switch and figured it couldn't be bad.

Well, what should I do now?
I bet Pelican has a "No return on electrical parts" policy.
But I don't want to experiment on this $100 switch before i find out what my options are.

Man, I am really bummed now. That was allot of work to swap this one out.

Wayne 962 · Wayne 962's Garage

Hmm, bummer. We do have a 'no returns' policy on electrical items, but that of course doesn't cover items returned for warranty repair (items that are clearly defective). I believe that the switch is made by Bosch, or SWF, or so, and typically their quality is great. I would triple-check everything to make sure that the switch is indeed bad.

Why did you replace the switch to begin with? Was the same thing happening with the old switch? It's not likely that two switches (one old, one new would experience the same problem)...

-Wayne

Leland Pate · 11-16-2002, 10:19 PM

Damn, Wayne ...that was fast!

According to the wiring diagrams (which I'm trying to scan and upload) if power is getting to the low beams and to the flasher, then the only reason the high beams aren't working is something internal with the switch.

Plus, nothing moves when I put the switch from low to high.

I can remove the wheel and column and take some pictures of the tabs and how they don't move from low to high.

.... guess it's going to be a long night.

So, what's the deal with warranty repair? Would I have to deal directly with the manufacturer?
God, I don't want to take that thing back out again...

No, the old one melted down... the little plastic tab that holds the metal strips apart on the old one melted causing a total loss of all lights.

This one is fine in that regard. It is just not moving the tabs when I flip it from low to high.
I can do it manually by pushing on the tabs with a little piece of plastic though the opening around the switch base on the column.

So, it appears to me to be a failure inside the switch.

Leland Pate · 11-16-2002, 10:42 PM

Here is a cropped photo of the Bentley diagram.

Like i said, I'm getting power to the flashers and to the low beams... it appears to me to be problem wit hthe switch itself.

Leland Pate · 11-16-2002, 10:47 PM

Here's a picture of the old dimmer switch. You can see where the little piece of brown plastic at the top has melted.

This one ist kaput. The new one seems to work fine other than it doesn't select the high beams.

RatBoy4 · 11-16-2002, 10:58 PM

Wow, you made me frustrated just reading this. That type of problem can be a real annoyance. Good luck, I hope that you don't go through too much more trouble to get it working again.

Leland Pate · 11-17-2002, 12:08 AM

Ok, I'm toast. It looks like the switch is bad.

I pulled the wheel and column cover and found an inop. switch.
The thing just won't work and i don't know why. The tabs refuse to move back and forth on their own free will. I can't tell but it looks like just a bit of the very tip of the little plastic "finger" that moved the tabs has melted just enough to interfere with the movement of the tabs.

I give up.

I'm selling the car.

I can't win.

5 years, $25,000 dollars in parts and I've been bested by a friggin' dimmer switch.

I cannot afford to toss bad $100 switches left and right anymore.

... must sleep now.

cary · 11-17-2002, 12:47 AM

Sleep.........who needs that.

This more Warren's area. But I can't remember, but have you put relays in for your headlights ? Sounds like your pulling to much heat thru the switch. Have you pulled out the light switch ( push/pull ) and seen if its burnt too ?

cary · 11-17-2002, 12:52 AM

but no highbeams or foglights...

Just saw that. I'd pull the light switch and take a look at the condition of those contacts. You have to do a triple inverted gainer to get at it.

Wayne 962 · Wayne 962's Garage

Leland, email me at wayne@pelicanparts.com, and we can talk off-line about replacement of the switch.

Hmm, switches just don't melt on their own, there has to be too much current going through them. Do you have a high powered relay on your lamps or high beams? Are you using non-stock bulbs in there?

If your original one melted and became damaged, and this one looks like it might have been slightly melted too, then I would suspect that the problem is in the electrical loads that you are pushing through the switch. Melted switches and wiring is what happens when there is too much current passing through the circuit...

-Wayne

ohecht · 11-17-2002, 04:24 AM

I was going to suggest the same possibility with high-wattage high-beam bulbs and no relays.

That would melt that part of the switch almost instantly.

Did the high-beams work even for a second when you first tested the switch?

I have 130 watt high beams in H1s running through separate relays to each light. Aside from your physical switch issues, I had the exact same symptoms (hihg beams would work with the flasker but not shen selected).

On mine, the signal was getting to the relays, and I just had to clean up the power suply to the lights.

Good luck.

Olivier

Leland Pate · 11-17-2002, 07:45 PM

Well, the plot thickens.
Today, after I calmed down, I took the car to a friend to see if he could help me figure out why my car just melted a brand new signal lever.
We looked over the wiring diagrams and after i made a comment about my foglights not working, he said... "well, that's suspicious, lets go have a look."
When i tried to pull the relay out, it was stuck.
I ended up having to use a screw driver to get that mother out of there! It was totally welded to the socket!
From there I started following the wires from the socket. Man, what a mess! Melted wires everywhere! Luckily, there was no damage to any other wires in the local area (and behind the fuse panel... there are allot of neighbors).

Anyway, my friend said that this could really be the reason why there is still a short in the headlight circuit. The foglight and the low beams share the same wire lead to the fuse box.
we also wired up two 40 amp relays to protect the headlight circuits from carrying such a ligh load.

Here are a few photos of the carnage and the new relay.

RoninLB · 11-18-2002, 05:49 AM

"Ok, heat and headlights now work... but no highbeams or foglights..."

Hey Doc.. so the grounded electrons created a permanent magnetic field that inserted your heat vent ststem into another dimension.. kinda like a teaspoon of a neutron star weighing a billion tons..
it's the cosmic connection

911pcars · 11-18-2002, 09:55 AM

Leland,
Based on the symptoms, you should isolate the components and test. Disconnect all components from the switch, then use your trusty ohmmeter and check for continuity between all switch positions. You have the wiring diagram to show you the circuit path for each switch position. If the switch is bad, Wayne should be able to replace it. On the other hand, if a faulty relay caused a short, if the circuit didn't include the correct fuse protection (or a number of other external factors), then you might be on your own.

MHO,
Sherwood
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