911 S/C european version differences?

[craigerz]

I'm in process of buying a 1983 911 S/C Coupe that was brought over from Europe. This is the second 'euro' car I will have owned, the first a 1982 turbo. I know quite a few of the differences. lights. bumperettes, different engine specs, ect. But I'm wondering about a couple of diffs. that I don't know about.. Weight? any lighter? Different brakes or suspension? Other differences?
This car has also had an '85 3.2 installed as the owner was tired of trying to get the Euro 3.0 to go thru emissions. What is being done to the motor in the way of bolt- ons now-days that works for these motors?
Also, the car does not have A/C, and am wondering if anyone makes a decent kit that works and looks factory.
Thanks guys, I appreciate it.
Craig

[javadog]

Maybe a few pounds lighter, from differences in components. The lack of A/C will further reduce the weight, as A/C was standard on a US car. Brakes and suspension are the same.

No idea what you want for "engine bolt-ons".

There are a couple companies that can supply better A/C components than the factory parts. Do a search, it's been discussed out the wazoo.

JR

[racer]

Brakes and suspension should be the same (assuming they are original). Euro cars tended to be less optioned and therefore lighter. The late Euro 3.0 SC motor was rated at 200hp. A US 3.2 Carrera motor was rated at 200hp. A Euro 3.2 would have had 231hp.

Seems drastic to change from a Euro 3.0 to a US 3.2 for emissions, unless it was a cali car perhaps. My Euro '78 SC with a 3.2 ss motor and CIS made emissions in several states over the years without a cat!

[ninesixfour]

Most Euro cars had no sunroof and no AC which makes the car lighter as do the smaller rear bumperettes (there was a thread on this recently and the difference in weight between the bumperettes was way more than I thought it would be). Also, I don't think the Euro cars came with the same bumper shocks but had crush tubes instead which were much lighter. My non sunroof Euro SC race car was in the high 2400s with a cage, no interior other than race seats, and fiberglass bumpers. They are around 2700 stock which should be pretty fun with a 3.2.

A custom chip from Steve Wong will add some power. People seem to be on the fence these days about SSIs or aftermarket exhausts on 3.2s.

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by ninesixfour

Also, I don't think the Euro cars came with the same bumper shocks but had crush tubes instead which were much lighter.

Much lighter? Let's get some perspective.

This "beast" is 12 pounds.



AC is just over 100 pounds, I have read.

Bumperettes - "way" more? Five pounds maybe? Not even counting the tenth in the quarter the larger ones provide from hyperbolic quantum wind reduction.

[wolds]

To bad it doesn't have the original motor. Is the gearbox original? if it is it has a taller 3rd and 5th gear.

[craigerz]

It has the original gear box. Weight wise there are some other differences, like crash bars in doors, as far as the weight goes.
The original 3.0 ran well, but he had a few miles on it, and this 3.2 came up w/ about 60 thou on it for about $5,500. And the emissions hassles of testing and adjusting over the 20 years he owned the car made him want something easier to get passed.
Thanks for your input and info gentlemen!

[kennykimk2]

Any info on weight difference on sunroof vs non sunroof SC's?
Manual windows vs power windows?

[ninesixfour]

Originally Posted by kennykimk2

Any info on weight difference on sunroof vs non sunroof SC's?

Sunroof about 40lbs. There's the motor, the cables, the wiring, and the additional roof structure reinforcement.

Originally Posted by Bob Kontak

Bumperettes - "way" more? Five pounds maybe? Not even counting the tenth in the quarter the larger ones provide from hyperbolic quantum wind reduction.

bumperette thread

[Coastr]

I believe us cars have a different angle on the accelerator pedal - the ROW cars have a more upright pedal to facilitate heel/toe while US cars were built to make driving at 55 mph more natural.

I have no idea if true or internet legend.

[javadog]

Internet bull****. They got the same pedal we did and there's no adjustment to the angle.

JR

[javadog]

Originally Posted by kennykimk2

Manual windows vs power windows?

A few pounds. If you start with the heavier parallel arm power regulator and go to the manual cross-arm regulator, it's a couple pounds more.

JR

[javadog]

Originally Posted by Bob Kontak

AC is just over 100 pounds, I have read.

64 pounds in a Carrera. Maybe a few more, for an older York compressor.

JR

[Josh D]

With a 1/4 tank of gas, no spare tire or tools in the frunk, and aftermarket A/C (RetroAire), my non-sunroof RoW coupe weighed 2480 on the scales.

I have also removed the smog air pump, backdated the heat, and run an early exhaust.

[imoto]

Also, I don't think the Euro cars came with the same bumper shocks but had crush tubes instead which were much lighter.

My 81 SC is an ROW which I assume is what you guys call a Euro version ( not sure) it has the shock absorber type bumper . I had a car run into me from behind and little damage was done to me a little paint scratched where the bumper went in and came back out. The Toyota that hit me was very smashed , when I got out of my car and saw the Toyota I feared how my car would look and was totally surprised

[javadog]

ROW cars in certain markets had the US style of bumper shock available as an option.

JR

[Josh D]

When federalized, most of the safety standards had to be met, like lights, bumpers, door crash protection, seatbelt buzzers, etc. Depending on the state it was imported to, it may or may not have had a US emissions package installed.

Mine had all the safety bits fitted, but none of the emissions stuff. It was originally imported into Ohio.

[imoto]

Originally Posted by javadog

ROW cars in certain markets had the US style of bumper shock available as an option.

JR

That the answer to that ...Thanks JR

[newms]

Let me see if I can offer some clarity to this discussion. The ROW 915 for 911SC has a shorter (by one tooth) 2nd gear and a taller (by one tooth) 5th gear. This aids slightly in 2nd gear accel and slightly lowers RPMs for top speed cruising, I assume with the autobahn in mind. Some ROW 915s for SC's had factory trans fluid cooler, while it seems all Carrera 915's 3.2's had the cooler as stock.

There are many differences between ROW and USA cars and most are listed here. The rear bumperettes, yes. I believe 8-9 lbs total is the weight difference. The bumper mount crush tubes look the same and act the same but ROW are hollow and slightly lighter; and perhaps offer less protection than the USA shock type.

Many ROW cars have the front fender side lights but I have seen some that do not. Yes, Non sunroof cars are more common. No A/C from factory more common. One item rarely mentioned is the crash protection in the doors. True ROW cars have a hollow round tube that runs across the inside of the door, while USA cars have a full steel beam that looks like a guard rail all the way across the inner door skin. I do not know how much weight this is but it is significant. Also leather interiors are much more rare in ROW cars with many having cloth/fabric interiors.

The front bumper lighting is different with ROW cars having turn signals only and no side marker lights, instead coming with rubber inserts that match the front bumper rubber strip in appearance and size. Also ROW cars have the orange taillight lens. Another difference is normal vision mirror glass in the passenger side rear view mirror, rendering it nearly useless, but very cool.

My car had only the lights changes (I think), coming with no sunroof, no a/c, no Cruise, but with power windows (thank god!), ROW bumper tubes, ROW fenders with side lights, small door bars, Euro H4's (oh yeah, there's that whole thing...), single vision rear view mirror, but did have the USA front side marker lights and USA taillights, though I have put the ROW rear lenses on and have a set of the front marker inserts waiting to install.

So to recap items that might be different:
Bumper tubes
bumperettes
Gears
trans cooler
Engines
Front Fenders
front bumper lights
sunroof
a/c
Cruise control
manual windows
leather
taillight lens
passenger rear view mirror
headlights
possible yellow fogs/headlights (France only?)

Something else to watch for in ROW cars is RUST. Europe doesn't have the climate much of the US has, or homes with garages like we have, and many European cars led an early tough life. Watch for rust on Euro cars!

To make it even more cloudy, at this point after 30+ years, there are so many iterations due to owner changes, federalization changes and modifications that differed greatly it seems from car to car, that it is difficult to know exactly what was stock ROW and what wasn't, etc.

[The phoenix]

915 gearbox has a shorter fifth gear for US
"""""""""""""
=> GB 915/62 for 911 SC "Rest of the world" (1980-83)
Rapports / Ratios :
1ère : 3.18 (11/35)
2ème : 1.83 (18/33)
3ème : 1.26 (23/29)
4ème : 1.00 (26/26)
5ème : 0.79 (28/22)
Démultiplication du pont : 3.88 (8:31)

=> GB 915/63 for 911 SC "USA/Japan" (1980-83)
Rapports / Ratios :
1ère : 3.18 (11/35)
2ème : 1.83 (18/33)
3ème : 1.26 (23/29)
4ème : 1.00 (26/26)
5ème : 0.82 (28/23)
Démultiplication du pont : 3.88 (8:31)
"""""""""""""""""""""

Also euro engine is supposed to be 188 or 204 hp when us is 180 but the difference is between 5 and 6 000 rpm so you never really feel the difference.