LM-2 Air Fuel Ratio Tester?

[rwest]

Hello,

Just saw another post on the LM-1 and got me thinking about getting one to set my mixture on my '77 2.7 CIS car. Pelican lists the LM-2, which I figure is the latest version, correct?

Couple questions:
Would this be the right tool for the job?
I see there is an exhaust clamp for sale Pelican Parts.com - LM-1 Exhaust Clamp does this allow me to skip the welded in bung and get right to testing?
Any other comments or suggestions to get me on the right path?

Thanks,
Rutager

[BGCarrera32]

AFAIK the LM-2 is the latest version, but I could be wrong.

The exhaust clamp does exactly that- allows you to skip the bung and basically stick the o2 sensor down into the exhaust pipe.

I don't know if your car has a cat or not...if it does then you need to meter the exhaust upstream of the cat and then the exhaust clamp is sorta worthless.

By the time you have all you need, you might be better dropping it at Auto Edge and having them set it for you. The other challenge with an LM-1 or 2 is that if you desire to do any testing with the engine loaded (such as part throttle runs down the highway), then you have to duct tape the cable from the exhaust alongside your car and thru the window while you hold the meter in your hand...sort of a pain.

If this is a one time set and forget it, take it in. If not and you want to futz with it, then get an LM2. The LM-2 also has an OBD2 reader and can be used on newer cars.

BTW, still riding your bike?

Cheers,
BG

[tirwin]

Here's a suggestion to consider. I looked at the cost of the LM-2 and I seem to recall that it was more expensive and the LC-2 + gauge. The LC-2 lets you data log too.

A permanent installation might be more work but I think you will have better results in the long run. With this option you can go for a drive and see the results. Plus if you had an issue over time that started to lean or richen the mixture you would see that happening. The downside of the LM-2 is that it is just a snapshot in time. How often would you really check it?

If you didn't want to do the permanent install, it would probably be cheaper just to take it to a shop one time.

[rwest]

Thanks for the replies.

I thought about just bringing it in, but here's my big worry: I just replaced the air box, hoses, seals and gaskets, so there's a chance that something isn't right and if I bring it in, all of a sudden I could have bought two testers for the price I get charged for them checking everything over and setting the mixture, where if I do it, I can hunt stuff down myself as I'm going along until I get it dialed in.

BG,

Nice hearing from you, very little biking going on anymore, as I've taken in a handicapped foster dog and can't let him sit any longer than I have to be gone at work. I am walking about 5 miles a day though.

[jungspike]

I have a LC-2 and love it. I also bought the SSI-4 which allows me to record RPM and AFR. My total investment was $250

My sensor is mounted in bung on one bank, so I bought that exhaust clamp to get all 6 cylinders. I put a jam nut on it because people said it rattled off, but it still fell off about three times.

I have heard mixed reviews on Innovate Motorsports quality, but mine is running good. Their customer service is non-existent.

[rwest]

Well, I've decide to purchase one along with the exhaust clamp, I'm sure you'll be seeing another post from me after I get it asking for tips on adjusting the two screws.

Thanks,
Rutager

[Gordo2]

Rutager,

I've been using a LM-2 for about the past year and a half to help me optimize my carbs.

Good tool - if you need any assistance just follow up with a post or PM me and I will see if I can help you get it set up. I'm not familiar with using it to tune CIS, but can help with the basic config on the wideband.

For reference - I think my Bosch sensor finally went bad (carbs were running quite rich for the past year or so, which I think contributed to the early failure). I believe it's the standard Bosch 17014 O2/Wideband sensor - which Innovate sells for ~ $85 but you can find online for ~ $45.

Good luck.

Gordo

[rwest]

Thanks Gordo,

I should have it in my hands by this weekend. Anxious to get my CIS tuned in since I just put about every part in that could have a vacuum leak and am hoping to get a great running car out of it!

[scarceller]

All the Innovate products use the older LSU 4.2 sensors, these work OK but we have much better sensors available today that don't need free air calibration. The best sensor is the LSU 4.9 and a decent gauge that uses these is the gauges from AEM, I highly recommend these gauges.

Here's a nice permanent install gauge from AEM for decent price that comes with 4.9 sensor:
Aem 30 4110 Wideband O2 Uego Controller Air Fuel Ratio Gauge Kit Bosch 4 9 LSU | eBay

Or see the AEM website:
Wideband UEGO Air/Fuel Controllers | AEM

My suggestion is get a 4.9 sensor gauge you'll never need to free air calibrate it.

If you plan to only use it to set mixture and not permanent install it can also be done with this gauge but it's a little clumsy as far as packaging but you could put it all in a plastic box and then simply have 2 power wires with alligator clips and power it from the rear fuse panel.

[DRACO A5OG]

I've got the LM-2 works for my needs and I helped several Pelicans adjust their AFR but YOU MUST insure your baby is vacuum leak free or you are wasting your time and money.

[rwest]

Draco,

I completely removed my CIS and replaced just about everything that could leak, so very much hoping it is leak free! Although removing the oil cap changes nothing. But, the car is running smelly rich, so wondering if being that rich would not be affected by some extra air.

My starting plan is to get the AFR to a reasonable point and then seeing if the idle changes with the cap removal. If not, then I'll try the vacuum and soapy water tests. Wish that automotive smoke machines weren't so much money or I'd get one.

Thanks for any and all of the help and support- you'll be hearing more from me soon, once the adjusting begins.

Rutager

[DRACO A5OG]

Go old skool smoker, YOU and a cigar.

Get a cheap or medium grade cigar, buy about 2-3 feet of vacuum line from your local FLAPS, light up the cigar, blow into the line and observe. This is how I found mind and several other Pelican's leaks.

Wife hated it but I found the leaks.

Jim

[KTL]

Originally Posted by scarceller

All the Innovate products use the older LSU 4.2 sensors, these work OK but we have much better sensors available today that don't need free air calibration. The best sensor is the LSU 4.9..........

Sal,

The new offerings from Innovate come with the 4.9 sensor. At least that's what the text says on their website for the gauge kits like the MTX-L.

MTX-L Wideband O2 Digital Air/fuel Ratio Gauge

The LM-2 is great to have if you'll be doing a lot of tuning in different cars. Otherwise you can simply get a gauge kit and use your laptop PC to act as the logger via the Logworks software.

[tirwin]

Originally Posted by DRACO A5OG

Go old skool smoker, YOU and a cigar.

With diplomatic relations now restored, it would be prudent to study the effects of Dominican vs Cuban cigars on CIS smoke tests.

[scarceller]

The 4.9 is the way to go so if Innovate now supports 4.9 sensors then you should be good. The other important thing is heater control to keep the sensor at the correct temp, AEM has very good heater control. I've heard that Innovate sensors fail prematurely because they over heat them but I don't have first hand experience with Innovate. But a sensor that's properly controlled by a decent controller should last for more than 30,000 miles easily.

Originally Posted by KTL

Sal,

The new offerings from Innovate come with the 4.9 sensor. At least that's what the text says on their website for the gauge kits like the MTX-L.

MTX-L Wideband O2 Digital Air/fuel Ratio Gauge

The LM-2 is great to have if you'll be doing a lot of tuning in different cars. Otherwise you can simply get a gauge kit and use your laptop PC to act as the logger via the Logworks software.

[DRACO A5OG]

Originally Posted by tirwin

With diplomatic relations now restored, it would be prudent to study the effects of Dominican vs Cuban cigars on CIS smoke tests.

LOL, I am gettin some Cubans soon

Dr Sal!, I do have to agree Innovative build quality is not so great. My RPM reader connector snapped off at the connector. I had to rebuild it but the wires they used were so thin that with use it will just snap off. I used a bunch of heat shrink to reinforce it.

LM-2 and above only will adapt to the 4.9 and you have to buy the proper adaptor for it

[scarceller]

Personally I only use WBO2 systems from TechEdge but these are not easy to use or setup but they do have one of the very best control systems around. The other reason I use these is that you can get a single box that runs the WBO2 sensor and has 8 to 10 additional inputs, including thermo-coupler ready inputs as well.

But for basic simple use you can't beat the AEM product line, especially for in dash install. At about $160 you can add an in dash WBO2 AFR gauge, best money spent on these air cooled cars! That single gauge can tell you a lot about the health of the Fuel injection and ignition components.

[RD911T]

I don't have any experience so forgive obvious questions. I would be looking to put this on my 2.2 E motor with Webers and SSI's. There is no O2 bung, so I would have to install one.

Given the 2 Webers are seperate, would you put an O2 bung on each side and swap it periodically to make sure both sides are running well?

The Aem system referenced on ebay will log data, but is there any way to link that to RPM data?

TIA
Tom

[scarceller]

You will need to install a bung, you can put it on either SSI or both or better yet put it in the center of the muffler so it sees exhaust from all 6 cyls.

That AEM gauge is a basic gauge, I don't think it has logging ability. If you want logging then Innovate is good but you need a 2nd box for that and the costs go up. Or goto techedge and look at what they have WBo2.com WIDEBAND AFR/LAMBDA (Tech Edge) but techedge can be hard to setup. I think AEM can also do it, look at the AEM site as well.

Originally Posted by RD911T

I don't have any experience so forgive obvious questions. I would be looking to put this on my 2.2 E motor with Webers and SSI's. There is no O2 bung, so I would have to install one.

Given the 2 Webers are seperate, would you put an O2 bung on each side and swap it periodically to make sure both sides are running well?

The Aem system referenced on ebay will log data, but is there any way to link that to RPM data?

TIA
Tom

[KTL]

I think the bung on both sides of the exhaust is a good way to approach it. Since you've got to install one anyway, it's not a big hassle to install two. I like two bungs so you can check each bank of carbs to see how they're performing. With one bung, even if its in the muffler, you're going to do some hunting to find the problem in one (or more) of the six carbs.

Installing a bung is fairly easy to do with a drill and a suitably sized hole saw and a welder. I choose a hole saw slightly smaller than the bung outside diameter. Then after you've cut your hole, you widen it out a bit with a grinding bit (carbide burr bit in a drill works great) to create a hole big enough to get the bung to sit inside the hole w/out falling thru the hole. Sort of like a sloppy interference fit. Doing the interference fit routine lets you get the bung fully inserted into the pipe. If you don't fit the bung into the hole, you have some of the bung hanging over the hole due to the curvature of the exhaust pipe.

Because i'm a gauge dork, I decided to give the Innovate dual AFR gauge a try. It has dual AFR displays and two sensors to allow you to monitor both banks of carbs/cylinders at the same time.