Testing Some LED Headlights
 

A few years back I build a set of HID headlight for my 71 911. That was a lot of work and even to used HID parts were quite expensive.

On the 944 which had 7" sealed beams, I got some Hella H4 with 55/60 watt halogen bulbs, which was quite an improvement over the sealed beams.

However, going back to drive the 944 compared to the HID in the Boxster, wasn't that good. So I tried some LED's.

Here is what I used:

First the H4 Halogen 55/60 Watt, # 1 below.
http://airboxer.com/images/headlight_test01.jpg

Next I had the LED's in the Hello H4 lights, # 2 below
http://airboxer.com/images/headlight_test02.jpg

Now I got some 7" sealed LED 30Watt, # 3 below and a different one 48Watt, # 4 below.
http://airboxer.com/images/headlight_test03.jpg

Here are some pictures of the output.

H4 Halogen 55/60 Watt, # 1, typical H4 with the right side going up.
http://airboxer.com/images/H4_55-60_Hella.jpg

LED's in the Hello H4 lights, # 2, they are bright, but really had a small width and don't give you a lot of light left and right, especially when turning.
http://airboxer.com/images/H4_LED-02.jpg

7" sealed LED 30Watt, # 3, not too bad, but they produce 3 dots per lamp, it is not so visible in the picture, but it's there. They don't have a good cutoff and the light makes a bow.
http://airboxer.com/images/7-inch_LED-03.jpg

7" sealed LED 48Watt, # 4, these are the winner, they perform like the HID with a nice cutoff and give a nice light also left and right.
http://airboxer.com/images/7-inch_LED-04.jpg

All I can say: Seeing is believing.

Now these would fit direct in the cars with the sugar scoop headlights and the 914, 924, 944.

Next will be to see how hard it will be to mount them in the Euro H4 headlights.


Cheers
Engelbert

Nice post; thanks for the pictures.

If you look on the hood of the car in your pic with 3 dots per light, you can see the dots very clearly. I could see them on the garage door.

Nice job!

#4 is not US...

What's the brand name and model number for units 3 & 4?

The only way the 7" sealed versions will work in Euro housings is with a non-fluted lens. The focal points of the projectors will be seriously messed up with an additional focal points of the fluted lens.

#2 and #3 clearly show why you don't want to just install any bulb system in your headlights. The diffuse light pattern and lack of cut-off would blind oncoming drivers with that much intensity.

Thank you for testing these and showing the difference between them.

They are not branded. The #4 is basically DOT Compliant, but not yet DOT certified, like most other out there. It is, however E13 certified. I hope to get them DOT certified soon.

I think I agree, however, it's worth a try.

That was the exercise, to find a good one that performs like the HID's on the newer cars.

Thanks
Engelbert

More specifically, the focal point itself does not get messed up, but the refraction caused by the Fresnel, i.e. fluted, lens will seriously compromise the beam pattern, rendering the experiment a failure.

No, it really isn't worth a try, but go for it if you have to see for yourself.

You are overlaying two inherently incompatible technologies over one another.

The older reflector (which is predicated upon a precise parabolic shape with a specific focal point where a very precisely placed light i.e. the filament, needs to be) with a fluted Fresnel lens to refract (i.e. shape) the beam pattern. Old technology, but also, when done well, provides for precise and accurate beam patterning. See every quality H4 headlight out there.

The newer ("less old") projector beam technology with a separate, optically clear, non-fluted, cover (note this is a cover and not a lens), wherein all the beam patterning is done inside the projector unit. Placing a Fresnel lens in front of a projector housing will only serve to compromise the beam pattern and diffuse the light output.

I wish I was wrong here, but I'm not. Try the projector + Fresnel experiment on the passenger side of the car Send pics of the resulting beam pattern both against the garage door as well as a frontal shot at about the height of an oncoming driver's head and we'll see. Well, technically, you'll see as I already know what the result will be. Again, I sincerely wish we could have it both ways (Fresnel look with modern projector technology / performance), but this is yet another instance where one cannot have their Kate and Edith too.

Thanks for sharing your experiments with us!

Thank you for the clear explanation, and I agree 100%. My point was basically to show what it looks like with the H4 Lenses.

Thanks
Engelbert

Are those the JW Speaker 8700 Evolution 2s? I have a pair of 8800 Evolution 4x6s in my Volvo 740 and they are excellent.

None, not one of these would pass inspection where I live.
H4 with clean reflectors, non scratched lenses, and relays remain the best solution today anywhere lights are checked for pattern.
Talking about pre-993 911s.

Are there H4s that are US-legal? I thought only sealed beams and H5s were DOT.

Another great experiment/project! I can see how the 3 spots were created, as there are three "sources" in place of one 360 degree filament.

The projector lens-ed LEDs are interesting. But yes, getting the non "bug eyed look" that owners of non current model 911s etc want is the trick.

When I did my HID in an H1 type clear lens-ed housing project for my 911, the functional results were great, but the appearance wasn't. The actual light didn't use the entire clear cover/lens, so I experimented with obscuring the unused areas of the glass with "fluting". But, then I get pulled off the "fun" projects and have had to do things like painting the house, etc, and I never found an appropriate "Fluting" material that could be applied inside the clear lens.

I used stick on clear plastic that had patterns, such as you'd get in a local hardware store for putting on bathroom windows for privacy. It worked and really wasn't awful if the car was going 30 and you were 30 feet away, (LOL) and helped prove the concept was sound.

Perhaps that could be a option? Need to find "fluting" that can be applied in the lens.

(Because getting HIDs or LEDs to act like filaments ...(which fluted lens require) is next to impossible)

I realise that this is a dodgy subject but I'll bring up anyway :)

These look like they might look kind of interesting depending on what they look like on the car: Amazon.com: Lantsun® 7 Inch Round LED Headlight with Amber Signal Halo Angle Eyes with DRL Halo for 97-15 Jeep Wrangler(1 Pair) 022022: Automotive

would love to know if they fit, and what sort of beam pattern they make.

nice write up. But from an aesthetic standpoint systems 3 and 4 to me are pretty ugly.

Here is a picture of the #4 installed in my 944 where I tested them.

http://airboxer.com/images/LED_HL_944.jpg

I got a few more set's now, and will install one in the 911 with sugar scope setup. That is a plug and play install.

Next in a 911 H4 setup with a clear lens.

Stay tuned.

Cheers
Engelbert

Here are some pictures of the LED's installed in the SC with sugar scoop setup.

http://airboxer.com/images/LED_Sugar01.jpg

Here mounted without the ring

http://airboxer.com/images/LED_Sugar02.jpg

LED mounted in the support ring.

http://airboxer.com/images/LED_Sugar03.jpg

I did also some testing with the H4. Just to see what the pattern looks like, I installed one in the H4 with normal lens. I was actually surprised about the cut-off.

Here on low-beam. The cut-off make a slight bow, but it is much better than I expected.

http://airboxer.com/images/LED_H401.jpg

Here the high-beam.

http://airboxer.com/images/LED_H402.jpg

Cheers
Engelbert

Engelbert,

I'll be really interested to see your results in an H4 setup. Good work!

That's a real shame though given that one of the H4‘s primary benefits is the precise level / horizontal cutoff from left to right and then the upwards break from the centerpoint that illuminates a large part of the right side of the road, including signage that sets higher than the horizontal cutoff, which is at, nominally, the same height as the headlight mounting height.

FWIW, the JW Speaker is available with both DOT flat and ECE up & to the right ("Right Hand Traffic") beam patterns...

0549711 DOT LED
0550231 ECE LED for Right Hand Traffic
You will note, they are also available in ECE pattern for Left Hand Traffic 0550211

This thread got me hunting. I am thinking these are the #4 lights here on eBay

5800LM White CREE 100W LED 7" H6024 H6015 Sealedbeam Chrome Projector Headlights | eBay

Ad says DOT approved, but not sure I would trust a random eBay seller. Thanks to the OP for doing this research.

The quality difference between name brands and knockoffs in automotive lighting is astounding. That's why I keep asking what components people are using in their retrofits.

It's not just the cutoff that's important, it's how light is distributed throughout the lit area as well. Most are built to look good shining against a garage door, not down an unlit road in town.

I am liking this thread! Was seriously looking at your #3 option just this week. Units are bl@@dy expensive down here, so I am happy I didn't bite the bullet! Trying to get a hold of a set of #4 as we speak!

There's a lot of talk about "Building" these headlights, if the LED unit you get is an H4 replacement doesn't it just replace the entire H4 light assembly? So if I already have H4's in the car would I just replace them with one of these units or is there more to it than that?

The H4 replacements are just the bulb unit, like #2 in the original post. You could install these in your current H4's (bosch euro or hella/sugarscoop).
The problem which I've seen with most of these is that the LEDs on the "bulb" are not in the same location as the filament in a normal H4 bulb, so you generally lose the beam pattern.

If you pull the trigger on the #4's from eBay, please update us.

I was talking about the other ones which look like an H4 bucket and have the bulb installed, like the JWSpeaker or Nolden units

Superbrightleds has a 7" multi-row that fits, plug and play, in sugar scoops. In chrome and smoked.
$125 each....

https://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/high-beam-and-low-beam-headlight-bulb/led-work-light-7-inch-round-40w/2512/

Those put out light that is an order of magnitude worse for driving than a set of stock H4s.

I am no engineer, but from the pics those look like they have almost no cutoff on low beam. That is probably why there is no mention of DOT approval and why they are described as "Ideal for off-road equipment lighting".

Ok ... The GE nighthawk 7" has one reviewer with an older aircooled 911. He loves them.
Amazon has them with Prime for about $270 each.

The new stuff is fascinating especially when new technology is vastly superior. But I am just not seeing it. Think I will keep my relayed H4s with 110/80s. If I need more power on high beam I will add a couple of drivers like on my old car.

But keep reviewing the stuff because you just never know who will hit a home run.

Before I do, just a quick question:

If you look at the picture of your regular H4's you'll see the beams are slanted to the left as per the green lines below. This is to prevent blinding oncoming traffic in a LHD situation. For us here is SA the beams have to be slanted to the right (red lines), as we drive on the other side of the road from you guys.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1448960025.jpg

I see that the LED lights (#4) also show a slight slant to the left as per the green lines below.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1448960165.jpg

Can they be adjusted at all? If not I might not be able to use them...

I guess you could contact the OP or the eBay seller. My guess sadly is no.

I've mentioned before that my relayed H4s with Hella 80/70W bulbs give me better overall visibility and pattern than the HID in my older Audi A4.

There's an aspect of subjectivity and we all tend to like our solutions the best but factoring in the expense, complexity and appearance I'm more than satisfied with the direction I went.

Posting this thread here in case you are not following it on the Parts for Sale forum. Don't get confused if you see posters referencing installing "speakers". That is just the name of one of the lighting manufacturers being discussed. FWIW, I am with the OP on this thread and leaning towards #4 for my '77 hot rod project. Seems like best bang for the buck for us Pelicans in the USA.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-used-parts-sale-wanted/882820-new-offering-led-headlights-65-89-911s-5.html

Here are some pictures to see the difference of the LED's compared to the H4 Hella 55/60, not against to garage door.

Here are the H4

http://airboxer.com/images/H4_01.jpg

Here are the LED's

http://airboxer.com/images/LED_01.jpg

It's really a big difference. Also what I like is that the LED put more light to the side, so when you turn in to a side road, you can actually see where you are going.

Cheers
Engelbert

The #4 LED head lights are now DOT certified.

http://airboxer.com/carmagic/images/LED_DOT.jpg

Happy New year
Engelbert

Engelbert

can you provide the source of the the #4 LED Headlights..I am also looking to upgrade...

what additional wiring is required (i have a 77 911)

thanks and happy new year

I am using the GE Nighthawk LED headlights on my 914. They are complete replacement headlights. The improvement in nighttime visibility is night and day (sorry for the pun). Much more light and less current then stock.

I think Jaudette offers the RHD pattern, but ask him.