smaller wheel, easier steering, who knew

[redstack]

I mounted my new MOMO Mod 7 wheel today. I had some trepidation as my 84 has pretty heavy steering. My worry was that the smaller dia wheel over the stock three spoke would make the steering almost impossible.

Imagine my joy and surprise when it tested out to improve the steering feel. Two laps on the closest twisty road, not to mention the real test of getting out of the parking lot, showed that it was all going to be alright. I believe that the Mod 7 with it's 70mm of dish, improved the feel because it put the wheel closer to me, allowing the input to be more of a direct pull down rather than a long armed twist. At 6'3", to accommodate my legs I had my arms fully extended, now there is a bend in my elbows and a much better ergonomic position.

In the corners I also felt like I didn't have any binding between my knees on the wheel as I struggled to stay in place. Of course the leg room is much improved as well.

So now on to a better seat, and an over haul of the whole steering system.

[wayner]

This theory seems to fit with our cars as well. Especially the upright seating position (but not the heavier part).

...and it seems to support your theory.

I love my mod 7

"In a NASCAR type car, many things are completely opposite. The driver sits very upright, and is very close to the steering wheel. In fact, the driver can almost lay his whole forearm on the steering wheel. Why the big difference? The cars themselves are larger, heavier, and have large front tires. Additionally, on even the large speedway tri-ovals, the percentage of time spent turning is much higher than on a road course. All this adds up, and means the driver's right arm and shoulder is going to get tired much sooner. Sitting upright and close to the steering wheel allows the driver to utilize more of the shoulder and back muscles."

Source: TurnFast! Race Driving Techniques for Heel Toe Downshift, Driving Line, Cornering, Braking, and More • Seating Position

[wayner]

Note, at your size DO NOT pick these seats. You'll be sorry.
(Recaro pole positions are for guys my size not yours)

..

[gliding_serpent]

I have a half dish suede 380mm (oem diameter) sabelt wheel and it is brilliant. I can still see the gauges which is key. Few options aside from a sparco that gave that design with the half dish.

[Humdaddy]

+ 1, I'm 6'2 and agree lighter steering and it just looks good, longer reach to the turn signal stalk though.

[tirwin]

Agree with Wayner. I bought Corbeau GTS II seats (I think that's the model) a couple of years ago.

They look great and everyone compliments me on them. They are fine around town, but on long trips the tight fit of the side bolsters gets annoying. The other thing that irritates me is the slider mechanism prevents an under-seat fire extinguisher from being mounted. I'm thinking about sourcing a pair of sport seats instead.

Interesting result on the Mod 7 wheel. I ditched the MOMO Competition a few months ago. I debated between the Mod 7 and the Prototipo. I like the Prototipo better than the Competition but I do still have a little buyer's remorse for not buying the Mod 7. Hey maybe I can get a quick release and use both!

[Otter74]

The core of the quote that wayner cites is true in just about anything. Anyone who is straight-arming the wheel in normal use has their upper body too far away for good control in an emergency, or on a track. This is one of those things that I learned as a teenager, possibly in the British book 'Road Craft'.

In the 911 this does tend to give a notably upright position, at least for me. In my Fiat it's largely impossible to get such a position unless you're a gorilla. It's less important in a car with power steering and low steering effort, but if you need to make large steering inputs all of a sudden it's still going to be hard to do this effectively and safely if you are straight-arming the wheel through part of the turn. Sometimes I will have one seat position for things like cruising down the highway and another one, slightly closer, for faster driving on fun back roads.

[wayner]

Originally Posted by tirwin

Agree with Wayner. I bought Corbeau GTS II seats (I think that's the model) a couple of years ago.

They look great and everyone compliments me on them. They are fine around town, but on long trips the tight fit of the side bolsters gets annoying....

Aside from width, there is height of the Recaro pole positions.
I am 5'10. Perfect fit.
When my friend who is 6'2" sits in my seats, the should belt pass-through hits him in the lower part of his should blades.

[winders]

Originally Posted by redstack

smaller wheel, easier steering, who knew

So it was the location of the steering wheel, not the diameter, that made steering easier....maybe the title should reflect that.

[wayner]

Easier steering in spite of smaller wheel?

[winders]

Originally Posted by wayner

Easier steering in spite of smaller wheel?

Like I said...the title is quite misleading since we know that a smaller wheel, all other things staying the same, will increase steering effort.

[Techno Duck]

I also thought it was strange when i replaced the 930S wheel with a Momo Prototip; i felt the steering was a little easier to manage at low speed. The 930S is 355mm and the Prototipo 350mm so you would think the opposite would be true. I used a 1" spacer with the Prototipo, i think a combination of that and it being a thinner wheel helps. The 930S is quite 'meaty', i can get a better grip on the Prototipo.

I put a Mod07 in my 951 track car a few years ago and absolutely love it. It replaced a Momo Competition wheel. I was thinking of doing the Mod07 in my Carrera also but didnt care to have the yellow centering mark in this car (only driven on the street really).

[redstack]

I had thought that the smaller diameter wheel would have a greater influence than the closer position. But I was surprised to be wrong. So I'm standing by my title, it's smaller but still better.

As for seats, I'm a big feller and won't be on track very soon, so I'm trying to get some Recaro LX series seats which will be better, but not really track ready.

[redstack]

BTW you can paint the yellow stripe any color you want, there are other posts that mention that. If you are tall I would recommend the Mod 07 or Mod 08 for sure.

[winders]

"smaller wheel, easier steering, who knew" implies that the smaller diameter of the wheel led to easier steering. Since that is not the case, "deeper dish wheel, easier steering, who knew" probably would have been better.

[Flieger]

But this way he gets way more views because everyone clicks in order to tell him how he is violating the laws of physics.

[winders]

Originally Posted by Flieger

But this way he gets way more views because everyone clicks in order to tell him how he is violating the laws of physics.

That's what I came here to write in the first place!

[tcar]

The above is not really true.

At speed, you are moving the wheel a smaller distance due to the smaller arc. The moving car keeps the effort down. So you 'feel' that it's easier.

It will require much more effort to parallel park with the small steering wheel. Car is not moving fast.

[redstack]

Ah despite some objections, I stand by my well thought out and very insightful title. I was ever so fearful that the small diameter would make it impossible to move the wheel with my little chicken arms.
But as Wayner pointed out being able to use a more ergonomic position to leverage the wheel overcame the decrease in wheel diameter.

As for parallel parking it was hard before the change, and is actually slightly less strain inducing with the above mentioned ergonomic, Safety-in-Motion-approved green zone application of arm power.

While some (who have thousands of posts) claim I am passing on my observations to gain fame and glory, in fact I wanted to show that we don't have to fear the smaller wheel, if we can still get close enough to twist it's tail.

[winders]

Originally Posted by tcar

The above is not really true.

At speed, you are moving the wheel a smaller distance due to the smaller arc. The moving car keeps the effort down. So you 'feel' that it's easier.

Okay, let's get serious here. You are completely incorrect. A smaller wheel reduces the leverage you have over the mechanism that moves the wheels. So, no matter what, a smaller steering wheel would feel harder to turn than a larger steering wheel if all you change in the experiment is the diameter of the steering wheel.