3.6 Throttle Linkage Set-Up Question
 

How are you guys doing it? I ended up with this unacceptable deal pictured below, there has to be something better and safer.

I fear this cable won't last long. Plus no matter how it is adjusted, WOT is not even close to being possible with this set-up.

Also, before I get hammered, I am NOT negatively commenting the company that initially performed this engineering marvel.

Todd,
Brother I am with ya on that.. it won't last Long by looks of it.. ask Jack and Thom and BillV what they're runnin.. It has to be BETTER than what ya just posted... Everyone listed is safer than that, so I know they have better set ups.. come guys show us what ya have to get rid of the posted set up...

Todd B.T.W. I wouldn't drive the car looking like that .. man it doesn't look safe Brother,, ya better give the motor to me i do some testin for ya!! hahahahaaha :D ;)


Eric Mckenna
78SC

The cable doesn't bother me as much as the way it loops around the pivot without a shield to prevent wear through on the cable.

Cables are used for lifting extremely heavy stuff but always have shields where you hook on.

Also the bolt for clamping looks like it might compromise the cable as well.


Bobby

You're right about the wear. I need to replace mine because it's almost worn thru at the bottom. I did a little Arkansas engineering with safety wire for the time being, but it's just a short-term hack.

In order to get WOT, I had to cut off the stop from the bottom of my pedal in order to get the extra pedal travel.

In this image, you can see my okiefication of the linkage:

http://vintagebus.com/howto/trans-cooler/legend.jpg

Todd what happen to the clip that clips onto that arm, should be some type of swivel clip, my idea would be to get the clip or old cable and use a harley type clutch saver, what it is is you put the cable through it and a bolt tightens down on it, i would tack weld two side by side put the cable from the motor in one and the cable from the tranny side in one, then you can use a secondary clamp like you have for precautuion, ill draw a picture if you want, this way you would have no metal parts, the swivel on the tranny side will last for ever, Kevin

Here are some pics of mine, its stock Carrera 3 up to the engine connection
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa... 006_small.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa... 009_small.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa... 034_small.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa... 050_small.jpg

hallo
Why dont you use the original 964 Cable all the way to the front ?
harald

Thanks for all the pics and ideas. After laying underneath of the car for about two hours tonight, I think I am going to try and fab up linkage and to rid myself of the cable. It disturbs me everytime I look at it, what a cheesy way to do it. I figure after all of the cash I have dumped in this, I sure as h@ll don't want to be worrying about a cable.


I'll post pics as it progresses.


As always thanks for the ideas and input!!

I've been using the same set up for the past 3+ years and have no difficulty. The car has done track events and daily driving without failure. I believe I would concern myself with outher issues.

Well thanks for the input, but I will concern myself with all issues that are weak, poorly designed and potential safety hazards. Also, it is more than a durability issue. WOT is not possible with this setup on a 993 engine, unless I adjust it to the point the throttle is partially open at idle.

If it were a lawn-mower or mini-bike, I would have no problem with this cobbed set-up. But it's not, it's a Porsche.

Call Patrick Motorsports and get the 993 cable. Thats what I have and the fit and operation is great.

I think it cost $200 plus but you get what you pay for... The only thing that PMS does is shorten it at the accelerator end.

I agree with you Todd, just because somthing works ok.. doesn't mean it is the way to always do it I am sure there are better weays to hook up the linkage.. other than that "Uh yeah that will do" way! I know you'll find a better way that will last, and be safer over all. I again agree with ya Todd, Its your Porsche I am sure you'll find a better way!
Eric Mckenna
78SC

How does the PMS version attach to the existing set-up?

Thanks,

IT JUST DOES, DAMMIT, NOW LEAVE ME ALONE! :eek:

Dude, are you SCCA_ITA who posted the PMS info that I quoted? Or am I missing something here?

DAMN! Thom.. what gives? That was a bit out of Charactor for ya!
It seemed like a perfectly legitimate question to me, yet you SNAPPED at Embs question that wasn't even DIRECTED at you..
come on Thom.. man people come here to get answers to questions,, not Flippant remarks to thier questions..

I REALLY hope i simply misread your post and that you were JOKING with , then I seea bit of humor in it.. but if your were being serious... well.....I see nothing but a needless reply to a fellow P-car owners question.
Todd,
I hope SCCA-ITA replies with a bit of help for ya on this so you can fix the linkage.

Cheers, Eric
SmileWavy

Boy there are some seriously creative throttle connections!

I think mine might be a bit more elegant. Go to a VW or bug speed shop and get the universal kit they sell for throttle linkage(Empie??). It will include a ball and socket type connector and a cable. You only need the ball and socket which they don`t sell separately. Take the metal pivot piece off the trans and drill/grind off the portion you guys have been wraping the cable end around. It might even be bolted on?? I can`t remember. The ball portion of the kit attaches at that end of the pivot piece. The socket simple snaps on the ball and your cable attaches to the socket with a set screw. I used the cruise control cable and bracket that worked/fit perfectly.

No problems for 6+ years.

Tinker

Thanks Tinker, that doesn't sound like to much of a compromise.

Hi All,

I will take a picture of how it exits the rear tube. The front is all installed so it will be harder to show, however there is a small thredded piece added to the front of the 993 cable that accepts the socket that is donated from the original hard line accelerator which attaches to the accelerator peddle. The rear is stock for 993 not sure of 964 but should be the same.

Todd,

While I am suspicious of 3.6 911's identity, as it may have been created for the purpose of responding to your post, I must agree with the opinion. You could find other things to worry about.

I know you have your issues with the individual that performed your transplant. Since your first post regarding the work on your car, you have posted other threads that express your discontent in front of the subscribers of this forum.

You might have rigged the throttle differently had you done the work yourself. However, given the fact that others have successfully used and continue to use the same arrangement , I think it has passed the test of time.

If you agreed to settle your differences privately, then you should abide by that agreement. I don't see the other party posting threads about your competence, be it thinly veiled or otherwise. If your post is without a hidden purpose, then you should be advised that an alternate motivation might be read into your post, given what has transpired.

lothar,
I to am aware of the issues that Embs and another party have had.. but that is old news. I feel that Embs is trying to use the welth knowledge that can be found on this BBS. Several people have already posted a few better ways to hook the throttle up. Which is great. I know I would want to look at all the options out there and pick the best one. SO please do not READ anything into this post that is not in it, and turn this thread into a PISSING contest. that is for sure NOT what this thread is about.. He is simply once again trying to find better linkage options.
If this were your car I am sure you would want the same. I am not to trying to the UN of the 911 forum but please simply stop briging that old news back to the surface and let the man get some other options for his car.

Eric Mckenna
78SC

Lothar you are certainly entitled to your opinions, just as I am. I just want to do whats' best for my car and not get hammered in the process for posting things in the past that I would certainly like to forget. At the same time, I will always stand up for myself be it online or in person.

Considering your long explanation of someone else's situation, I didn't see any ideas for linkage which is what I am trying to solicit.

Thanks,

I make no assumption regarding your post. I merely point out that some might interpret your post differently from what was intended.

I sincerely hope you find a solution that is to your liking and I hope you will post pics once you have made the modifications.

Best Regards,

Embs I am gonna start my conversion in a few weeks so when i get to that ill let you know if you havent already found something that I can use, Also, I dont think your post is out of line, If there is anything else that you are gonna try and improve post it, thier are several of us doing conversions right now and we are all interested in improving our conversion, Kevin

Here is a short list of quick Items I can think of:

Unless your car is for track use only, headers are a complete waste of money, (especially on a 993 Varioram engine)

PMS is expensive but well worth it for many of your conversion parts (especially the wire harness). Unless your really into fabricating your own stuff. (I am checking into their throttle set up on Monday)

If you are doing a 993 engine you need two O2 sensors if your exhaust is a split system, some say one O2 sensor for OBDI.
Steve at rennsport can shed the light on the O2 Sensors for you.

Invest in earlier cooling tin or you will have huge air gaps in your engine bay. It looks like crap.

I know there is much more, but I am a little brain dead right now.

Best luck on the conversion. I hope to get my car going soon.

Thanks,

There is no reason to be suspicious of my identity:

If there are specific questions as to my intent please e-mail me and we can discuss it.
I was merely stating that I have the same set up on my car and it functions very well.
It does however feel that Embs is trying to bring up an old problem.

One more "worthwhile" improvement for the 3.6 conversion so many of us are doing:

On one of the conversion packages I have seen the vacuum port at the intake being plugged with duct tape…. While this might last for “...testing the engine in the car before shipping...” it won't last much longer. The effect is hunting idle. Ask how I know. And God forbid this mess gets sucked into the intake.

Ingo

http://www.di.com/home/ingo/pelican/intake.jpg

I don't see it that way at all... I think it sounds like you wish he were, or that you want him to bring up an old problem. As you can see. There have been several good sugestions as to a potentially better throttle linkage set up. The ONLY person who seem to continue to try to dig up old issues and ill feeling is you, my good friend 3.6 911.
I would ask that if you do not have any suggestions on how to set up a better longer lasting throttle linkage that .. well you PM Embs yourself and talk to him and stop trying to turn this thread into a friggin arguement, of who is wrong & who is right.. please..
I like the thread because I plan on doing this swap myself and I like to hear the other options on how others have delt with the throttle linkage. So PLEASE stop trying to DING HOLE it up by starting a fight.


Eric Mckenna
78SC

SmileWavy

Eric,
At some point in your life were you a cheerleader? It appears to me that you have been the one who has been waving your pom-poms concerning the post and saying that the current throttle assembly is unacceptable. (please see your first post regarding this subject)
If you would take the time and read my post, I only said that this method of connecting the throttle cable was adequate and worked very well. (I was giving my personal input and experience regarding your inexperienced opinion. As I recall you have not done this conversion yet and have no basis to make such assumptions?)
As to your reference to my trying to start a fight, that is completely not true. Once again I was giving my opinion regarding Todd’s first post on this subject.
If you continue to post as you have regarding my opinion I will continue to defend myself publicly.
Others have questioned my position privately and I have responded.
Along with others I would like to see what possibilities there are for a throttle linkage. Until someone offers a significantly better proven design I will stand by my original comment.

Look, 3.6
I don't care what you have to say or think of me and my PoM-PoM's.. to be honest with you.. So what I wish you would do is Drop OFF! and allow this thread to be what it was intended for . which IS comming up with a better linkage than that which you have... sure it works, but IT IS NOT the best way to do .. looks like the most cost effective,, but not the best.. so if you would please stop posting old issues and sit down and think about it, you too may come up with a better way to set the throttle linkage up. wow what a thought.. try it you might surprise yourself.. and think of it three 3.6 man you might not only devise a better linkage but in doing so i can put my POM-POMs down and put them back into the closet with my other cheerleading items.. !SO please either contribute or Stop posting! on this thread... if you have done nothing wrong, then you have nothing to defend!.. right?

Eric Mckenna
78SCSmileWavy

Eric has seen my car, we share the same mechanic.

I think the bottom line is that while cable looped around a post will work, it is certainly not very robust. Depending on driving habits, corrosion and other factors, the cable could fail much sooner than a normal linkage set-up that utilized rods with ball (female / male) ends, or some other configuration.

The other problem is that as my car exists now, WOT isn't possible
regardless of how the current set-up is adjusted. This has been verified by a Porsche Certified Master Tech. (woo hoo)

3.6 911 you can tout the design till the cows come home, but by all honest observations it is not very good, period. I started this post to see what other people have done, because I am of the mindset that there is always a better idea. If possible, I want to solicit these better ideas and incorporate them into my vehicle. That is what the BBS is for, sharing ideas.

Considering your wealth of knowledge on the 3.6 subject, where would a person find their O2 sensor lead on the wiring harness?

If only one sensor is needed on an OBDI engine, which header or exhaust gets the sensor on a split exhaust system (as I have)?

Please visit http://www.rennsportsystems.com/~porsche/1-a.html
and give Mr. Weiner a call, he has a lot of really good information to share on the subject. He is also quite pleasant.

Thanks for your continued positive input. Like John Walker, Tre Motorsports and many others, perhaps you can start to share your wealth of Porsche information with the BBS as many other shop owners do.

Back to the topic:

Has anyone tried to use a standard 964 or 993 throttle cable. Are there any modifications required to it? How does the PMS solution look like. Any pictures around?

Ingo

PMS ordinary stands for Pre Menstrual Syndrome.

You know, that time of the month where women tell you IT JUST DOES, DAMMIT, NOW LEAVE ME ALONE! :eek:

Thom is funny :)

HAHHAHA I get it now! sorry Thom,
I thought that was bit out of place for ya! HAHAHA thanks for clearing that up.. HAHAHAHA how did I miss that!:D

Cheers,
Eric MckennaSmileWavy

Bill,

Do you happen to have a close up pic of the throttle linkage attaching to the throttle body? Or a higher res version of this pic?

I'm trying to figure out what you did to attach the stock throttle linkage to the engine!

Thanks for the help!

Bringing up an old thread here.....

I have the bicycle style looped cable on my sc to 3.6 conversion. It works OK, but the throttle response at small angles is pretty poor and it takes a lot of travel to get to WOT. Has anyone who has upgraded to the Patrick Mororsports cable from this old style arrangement have any opinions on improved throttle response/linearity?

Trying to decide if the upgrade is worth the time and money.

Thanks!
Mike

I think that one of the best ways to address small angle throttle response/pedal travel issues is the change the geometry. One of my friends (who built my car and builds my engines) suggested this t me years ago. In my case, the change was made on the lever on the transmission pivot. I lengthened it quite a bit.

My friend has done this mod to a few cars.

Very easy to do.

I don't think the conversion to a cable set up changes geometry by itself.

Using the stock 964 throttle cable makes the throttle response just what it was in the original car: perfect. In addition it's butter-smooth and prevents all the issues where it doesn't return properly with a linkage (idle switch not activated) It's a no-brainer IMHO.

What "original car?"

Perhaps two different questions exist... how to change the geometry such that you have the ratio of pedal travel to throttle opening you want. This is what I mentioned above. In some cases, it is desirable to have a non-stock set up.

For example, for many years, my race car had a single large TB 3.8 liter racing engine. Non-ideal throttle response based on the cams and set up I had. Once I changed the geometry, I increased/optimized the part throttle range quite a bit.

Now I have a 3.6L short stroker with a smaller 964 stock TB. The changes I made before still provide benefit as I still want a decent range of pedal travel versus butterfly travel.

As for a cable-- sure this can address some desires and issues. I have considered changing my set up to a 964 cable. But this change, by itself will not address geometry.