The next big thing....3.0 EFI/ITB w/Rasant engine management
 

My latest 911 hot-rod, engine build project is underway.
I am building this engine for Andy Chapman in California.
Andy saw my 27 RS-ish engine and asked if i could build his 3.0 in a similar fashion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWB99lddFew

After some discussion, regarding Andy’s ideas/driving style/requirements, we pinned down the following build specs for his 3.0.

Andy’s 3.0 build 9basic spec)
• S3-EFI/ITB kit (this is my EFI kit)
• 9.8:1 JEs
• E-cams (Well, like early E, but with more lift)
• Headers
• Sport muffler

Andy wanted to incorporate both, my S3-EFI/ITB kit....

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1452480893.jpg

...... and the new 911 engine Management kit from Rasant Products (by Andrew Darud)
Check out the details related to the rasant Products kit here:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/886014-911-engine-management-kit-6.html#post8952045

This kit looks to be a very well thought out and Andrew Darud and I have compared notes to ensure that it is configured for this engine build.

….so that is what is happening.

I will post the progress of this build from engine tear-down/rebuild to the fire up and tuning on my engine test stand. This will include the install of both kits…along with pix and commentary on how it all comes together.

So, that being said…….here’s the current status of the project.

The 3.0 engine was shipped to me and arrived in this handy 1976 911S carrying case…………

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1452479914.jpg

Since then...we've made some progress by dropping the engine out of the 76 and moving it to the stand.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1452480722.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1452480093.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1452480131.jpg

I'm fairly far along with the tear down of this engine and it is in really excellent shape...........

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1452481134.jpg

I won't bore you all with the typical rebuild minutia...but ......I have boxes of new parts (P&Cs, cams, bearings, gaskets....etc.) headed my way...some are already here

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1452481271.jpg

I can't wait to open that box and when i do, i'll provide more detail regarding the capabilities, which features we will be incorporating into this build and my impressions of the system from install to tuning.........
I'm taking a few days R&R...but i'll get back into it and post progress next week.....and I cannot wait to fire this one up.

regards,
al

So is the "Rasant Products" kit an AEM Infinity ECU (great ecu) with a harness?

Is your throttle kit start with parts from a sport bike coupled with an adapter, fuel rail and mated to a Weber manifold? Pricing?

Cheers

Al, can't wait for the next installment. The skunkworks rides again.

And you really have to stop messing with me as you know I have a thing for 3 liters.

This will be awesome!

S3-efi/itb
 

jeff,
Greetings from Mount Vernon, WA.....I've emailed a document to you that provides details about my EFI kit

regards,
al

3.0 madness
 

Rick,
This will be a stellar build. Stay tuned, i will update as I go and....everything that will be done during Andy's engine build can be applied to your 3.0 as well.
(but 1st.......maybe we can get your CIS working well.)

regards,
al

PS: see you Tuesday

Al, looks exciting. What TBs are those?

Andy, nice project. I like the P1800 as well.

I wish I still lived in Monterey. I don't believe we ever met. I drove two flat black 911. Maybe you've seen me?

S3-efi/itb
 

Jesper,
Greetings. If you PM me with your email address, i'll send you some info regarding my S3-EFI/ITB kit(s)

regards,
al

Rick, 3.0 is the way to go.

Jesper, when did you live out here? And the P1800 is build for the wife. Thinking of a V6 motor.

Hi Jeff, see our website for more details on what's provided for an ITB application. Combined with Al's kit it's everything needed to go EFI, coil on plug ignition, and ITB's.

Porsche 911 Engine Management Kit- 2.7/3.0/3.2L With ITB's [Rasant Products Brand] - $4,100.00 : Rasant Products, Porsche Performance Parts

Thanks,
Andrew Darud
Andrew@rasantproducts.com

Looking great Al and Andy!! Can't wait to see it all come together.

I feel so dirty
 

I spent much of the day.............getting things clean. I never media blast the cases or any internal moving parts. After blasting, parts always look great and clean, but I don't think that you ever get all of the media off or out of the passages..............so my approach to getting this stuff clean is fairly manual. The engine case gets pretty clean using the parts washer, but this half still has a couple of hours of work to go, by hand..with toothbrush, Q-tips, solvents, etc.....before it will be clean enough for assembly. gotta be a clean machine!!!!!

regards,
al

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1452565019.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1452565140.jpg

Im in... looking forward to seeing this build and your opinion of the Infinity system Al. Great to see you and Andrew working together on this.

David

I need to come see this, Al

Staying glued to this thread, as I'm going with the Rasant kit on a similar build in the future. Can't wait to see this thing go together Al!

What about soda blasting? Would that media & the debris it creates be easier to clean than sand? There's a thread in the engine forum about blasting internal parts & it was agreed that sand/glass etc... was not a good choice due to the reasons you mention.

Tom

Hey Al,
It's looking good. It's nice to see the the 3.0 getting a new life. I am looking forward to having a bulletproof motor coupled with Andrew's modern ECU and Ignition fed by your very cool ITB's. Should make for a very reliable daily driver. To add to this on my end I have upgraded to the ATO modern fuse Pane:l http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/870742-new-company-new-products-classic-retrofit-911-fuse-panel-cdi-ignition.html
As for the rest of the car I want keep the suspension stock as well as the engine mounts etc. Want to experience it as a Mid 70's Porsche. With the exception of more Hp and just get in it and drive of modern cars.

Andy

The spot(s) where it last sat:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1452620124.jpg

Al, I am not currently able to undertake an efi project (time and money), but I remember your speed triple itb projects previously. I just didn't recognize the TBs.

I have been in contact with Darud about the Rasant kit, but once getting there I'll really like to do some of the work myself beyond the efi adaptation. What you are doing seems very attractive. I'll shoot you a pm.


Andy, I lived in the area while studying at NPS. I loved it!!! Left at Xmas 2014.

No more OT from me, sorry.

shroud
 

My 1st priority is always to build a good, reliable, strong running engine....but i like them to look good too. Installing nice, shiny EFI parts over an ugly, old beat-up shroud seems wrong....so I typically spend a little time improving the looks of the shroud.
They are usually dirty, greasy, scratched, so this is my approach:

I do not paint these as it never looks right, to my eye, and doesn't seem to last.........I like to bring the original gelcoat finish/color back to life. To do this I sand the surface to remove/minimize the scratches/gouges. Starting with 320 paper on the worst areas and working my way to 1000....then I use rubbing compound. I buff that out and then follow up with wax.

Note; This is not meant to be perfect.........but it does work well and really brings the shroud back to like...in its original, mellowed out/aged color. Maintain the patina.

regards,
al

PS: I do paint the metal piece
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1452889662.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1452889410.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1452889427.jpg

Looks great Al!

Purdy!

Subscribed.

Al can you possibly email me the info you sent the others? I want to get EFI stuff together by the end of the year and this looks like a good direction.

-Steve

cool...subscribed

hot
 

i been talking to al via email this is the kit for us guys that are not super rich but still love the marque i now have 40 idas on a built motor 3.0 je 10.5 to 1,964 cams (bad cam choice i'll be talking to drc this winter),headers,megaphone, she runs ok,but this kit will give the hit i'm looking for, that and some hot cams i'm hoping for 275hp http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1452912793.jpg
kosmal/darud for prez.of the PHRC porsche hot rod club

Efi
 

Steve,
Please PM me with your email address and I'll get the info out to you.

regards,
al

progress
 

.....hard at work. I apologize for the delay on updates...broken head stud had to be sent to be machined out.....but here are a few more pix of the progress. Engine rebuild is almost complete and i'm assembling my EFI intake kit ...awaiting the return of some of the powder-coated bits and then I will hook up the Rasant management system and away we go. I expect to be tuning by next week. getting very close............stay tuned!

regards,
al


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1454626529.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1454626779.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1454626550.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1454626567.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1454626580.jpg

Great work Al! Looks like you're on the home stretch. Keep us posted as the progress continues.

Andrew,
Greetings...down to the short-strokes. just ran into an alternator/housing mismatch....but that may be the last assembly issue to overcome (minor one), prior to installing the electronics. I opened up the Rasant kit the other day and I have to say, first impression is very good. I'll keep you posted regarding the install, tuning, fire-up, etc.

Stay tuned......more to come.

regards,
al

Modern, electronic fuel injection and independent throttle bodies. This just seems to be the pinnacle in 2016 for these air-cooled motors. I'm interested to see how these turn out.

I'm no fan of carbs, but quick throttle response is always welcome.

powder coating is a good thing
 

My local powder-coater does a great job.................there's a few bits (adapter plates and correct alternator) still to come, but these will be installed today.......we're at the 95% mark and I'll likely be wiring up the Rasant kit tomorrow.

regards,
al
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1454958557.jpg

Rasant
 

Well, I promised not to bore you with too many engine build details.............but I really am liking the way this one is turning out................but 1st, I finally started to dig into the Rasant boxes that have been sitting on my shelf......just waiting for me to get to this point....very nice stuff.....Andrew's work on the mounting panel and wiring harness are top notch
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1455240432.jpg

Installation of the T'bodies........

This is the adapter plate I designed to mate the Weber manifolds to the throttle bodies...as you can see the thru holes are angled to smoothly transition from Weber port spacing to Speed Triple port spacing...
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1455242189.jpg

Some of the bits from Andrew's Engine management kit have been working there way into the build..........like the injectors, plugs and COP units.....
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1455240851.jpg

So the two kits start to come together as a system...and this is where i left off today......it's starting to look pretty fine............

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1455241027.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1455241056.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1455241086.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1455241113.jpg

Tomorrow, I start to install the electronic control unit, supplied by Andrew Darud (Rasant) I aim to mount it to a panel adjacent to my engine test stand so that it can be seen in the start up pix and videos........

Everything, to date, has been going very smoothly but it can't be all fun and games.......here are a couple of things to consider when you are working on your own projects.......

When powder coating mating parts.....like the fan and housing and housing, make sure to mask the shaft hole and key-way and if powder coating both the fan and the housing....mask the ends of the fan blades or you will have an interference...and you'll have to sand it off.....like this...
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1455241575.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1455241597.jpg

Looks awesome Al!!
My dream engine build ( but with my 2.7!!)

There was once a shop near me that did custom powder work. Every bolt hole or "interference" point was dealt with. I never once got anything back from these folks where they missed these critical factors.

They utilized silicone rubber plugs, special heat resistant tapes, etc.
All of this surely made life easier because powder doesn't come off easily. If you find yourself with blind threaded holes with powder in them you'll know what I mean. Heck, any threaded hole for that matter!

Keep it Al! We're all waiting with bated breath.

You are an artist...

Al,

I love to see this project coming together. This is the project I've always wanted to see someone do. I have a few questions if you don't mind.

Looks like this was an early 3.0 motor so assuming these are the bigger ports? What size are the throttle bodies?

Would you expect any clearance issue with an A/C bracket interfering with the right fuel rail?

What are you using for the throttle linkage from the bell crank to the ITBs?

I'm curious to know more about the thought process behind the length of the velocity stacks, the cam selection, etc. What is your general expectation for HP/torque gain? How 'streetable' is this setup?

I have talked to some people who say that the stock CIS pistons are not suitable for EFI. Others say it doesn't matter, but the more I read, the more I think there is truth in the statement that CIS pistons aren't suitable. Obviously you've gone with higher compression pistons. Were these selected specifically for an EFI application?

The angle of those horns is killer. I'm curious what the in-car management of the engine is. Laptop? Ipad? iPhone? I'm sure we're pretty close to these ECUs coming with built-in bluetooth or wifi so we can adjust on the fly, no?

Agreed. Seems like lots of these things are still using old fashioned DB-9 serial ports. In looking at some of the ECU software, some of them require outdated versions of Windows. It would be great to see some more modern thinking.

Actually, I was wondering if anyone had ever seen a comparison/review of different engine management systems. With so many choices available it would be nice to see a run down of how they compare.

The market for such hardware and software is small, so they go wide with it—the most popular OS and the most ubiquitous interface. While these days it's USB/mobile, only five years ago it was Windows (XP even) and ancient serial ports.

I expect any project that started life in the last few years to be USB/mobile instead of Windows/Serial...Should make life a bit easier.

can you tell me what coils you are using exactly

Yes, it's been here quite awhile.