Real "Modified" RS on Ebay

[Gordo]

Interesting Car, has been in Collector Trader for a while. Don't know how much the mods to the ducktail, engine, and oil cooler impact value? Also Fuel tank looks like stock version? Curious about the experts opinions.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1874302887http://

Best,

[Jgordon]

I've seen that car a couple of times on the net. It looks like it's in good condition, but they all do. Interesting that Porsche has the delivery date as the 'birth' date. Shows some connection to the customer.

Jared

[skinnerd]

I'd ditch the "modified" ducktail (and find an original) and the wild paintjob. Besides that, I think it's a pretty cool car. The real RSR cooler can't hurt the value much at this point. Same with the displacement increase to 2.9 liters. Would this be a similar engine to the 3.0 liter MFI people talk about from time to time? The interior, trunk and engine compartment look good.

Sorry, I've got to make a comment about the modified ducktail.... what in the world???? If you need that much more downforce, just install an RSR style tail, huh? Just doesn't look right.... almost cartoonish.

Will be interested to see what the bid gets up to?

[racea911]

I looked at this car in person about 4 months ago. It's funny, I didn't even notice the modified ducktail. I can't believe I didn't, it looks goofy in the pics. I have an excuse as to why I didn't notice the ducktail and that was the white with blue graphics real RS parked in front of it.

If a very serious buyer wants me to go look at this car I can. It's very close to home. I know a fairly decent amount about early 911's but am not an expert on the intracacies of what an RS should have over a regular 73 911.

[GeorgeK]

OK, Dissection Class:
-The headlights are wrong
-The fuel tank is wrong
-Misses all trim, from bumpers to sills
-Outer sill plates wrong
-rear bumper wrong
-smuggler's box cover...
-Inner front fenders wrong
-Windshield washer bottle?
-Horn pad wrong (alloy, should be plastic)
-7&8X15 were not available before April '73
-Knee pad missing on passenger side

Is that rust peeking between the rear right chassis leg and the engine compartiment wall?
Drilled passenger side lock plate, old (original?) on the driver side

From all that I'd gather it has been smacked once, principally in the front.
It is most certainly a genuine RS, looking at the anchor points for the belts on the rear shelf
Would I like it? You bet! Imagine the project of bringing such a car back to original spec with the help of Pelicans.
GeorgeK

[racea911]

OK lets heat things up....

Whats a real RS like this worth in its current condition?

What would it cost to restore to as new condition (but sticking with the 2.9 displacement)?

What would the car be worth when it was completely restored?

How much would you have saved if you had just bought an excellent one that didn't need restoration?

[Gordo]

They are asking $73,000 in the Collector Car trader, way out of my league!!! They are asking 71,000 for the White and Blue RS which looks to be much more correct. I am mainly curious what a modified RS will go for. I assume the majority of the value is in the VIN. Also if the car has a significant race history I guess that would improve its value.

Best,

[GeorgeK]

In Europe, it would NEVER sell at that price. 40K is a maximum.
GeorgeK

[racea911]

40k US$$$ in Europe is a maximum for an excellent RS or for one like in the auction?

[GeorgeK]

40K USD would be a maximum for a car like this yellow example, where quite a few parts are missing to bring it back to original condition, assuming there is no structural rust.
Very good ones go for about 60-70K USD, and from there you start deducting for every flaw.
GeorgeK

[kstar]

One can find cars like this at Pomona for $7k to $10k all day long . . .



Best,

Kurt

[fryardds]

George,

What should the tank look like for a RST? I looked up the option codes in Starkey's book for VIN #0097 and it lists right and left Sport seats #409 and automatic speed control #454. Is that cruise control? Interesting that these are not listed on the Certificate of Authenticty. Makes me think that option 454 is listed as cruise control in modern 911s, but it must be something else in a '73' 911.

[nick-moss]

what happened to the twin batteries and their boxes?

But I agree with George: $40k

[1973911s]

The car is for sale at

http://www.europeancollectables.com/autos_by_make.asp?make=Porsche

[YTNUKLR]

The car was imported from Europe. They're trying to flip it for some serious $. The white RSL Euro Collectibles is selling is also a euro-import. I think I saw it at $50K somewhere in Germany a few months back.

[sithot]

Here's a good story that is true. A guy I know in Ohio who owns an original RS told me of a car he looked at in France a few years ago. When he looked at it he felt it was a "parts car" but the only way to tell is to get the number off of the dash (under the dash pad). This is a number that only the factory can verify and will tell whether the car and it's serial number belong to each other. In this case the "frogs"had taken a destroyed cars vitals and welded them in where necessary (trunk area stamping) as well as i.d. plates. The car was not even an RS.
Anyhow, he called the factory and they did indeed tell him the numbers did not match (they won't tell you what does belong, however).
This number is done in crayon, btw.
He went back to the gents selling the car and they more or less said that what they were doing was s.o.p.. He passed on the car
and you have to admit he was lucky but also smart!

[GeorgeK]

Brian,
From the Gunnar racing site:

Plastic and 85 liters.
GeorgeK

[andyjboy]

Brian, the option code #454 was for a Blaupunkt Coburg AM/FM radio.

The seller does not imply that the car is still in its original (apart from matching numbers) specification & many of the non-original parts pointed out by GeorgeK were frequently changed for competition use (switching to grp rear bumper, removing exterior trim, using 7 & 8" rims, ditching the 2nd battery, etc) & the price hype (particularly for the 'Lightweight' versions) in the late 80's/early 90's meant that converting 'Touring' models to 'Lightweight' spec was common practice. However, it seems odd that the car features a steel fuel tank - especially as the original plastic tanks are still relatively easy to obtain.

As George & Nick have said, there is no way that this car could get anywhere near $70K in Europe - not unless it has a very successful competition history & if that was the case I'm sure the seller would have included it.

Andy Boyle (UK)
'69 911E

[fryardds]

Originally posted by andyjboy
Brian, the option code #454 was for a Blaupunkt Coburg AM/FM radio.

in the late 80's/early 90's meant that converting 'Touring' models to 'Lightweight' spec was common practice

Andy and George,

Thanks for the info. on the option code and fuel tank. Andy, where did you get your option code info.? Every source I look at lists #454 as cruise control.

Is this an example of a conversion to lightweight specs on a RST?

"Touring M472 lightweight version"

[andyjboy]

Brian, yes that's a typical conversion of an M472 (Touring) spec car more towards the M471 ('Lightweight') spec. The car's original electric windows & std 'S' interior has been ditched in favour of manual windows with 'Lightweight' door panels & seats, removal of the rear seats, 'Lightweight' carpets, rear bumper has been swapped for the one-piece grp version, etc.
However, the car still retains its original electric sunroof!

Incidentally, this (Austrian) car had quite a few options from the factory :

White long-range lamps
LSD
Sports seats L&R
Head restraints
Electric sunroof
Electric windows
2-stage heated rear window
Retractable seatbelts
Blaupunkt Coburg AM/FM self-seeking radio
Additional (yellow) round lamps (below bumper)

Black headliner

Andy Boyle (UK)
'69 911E