Project Elephant: "While you are in there"

Chuck Moreland · 06:22 PM

The plan was to completely update the suspension and brakes, install some safety equipment, shoot a quick coat of paint, then get out on the track. Not concourse stuff, just the basics.

I removed the front suspension for a quick cleanup and the upgrades. The wheel wells had been sprayed with undercoating by the PO, which I hate. I figured as long as I had the suspension out, and I was going to repaint anyway, I might as well clean up the wheel wells and spray them now. Simple enough.

Oh, then there was a nagging rust spot in the wheel well. Since I was going to paint the wells, I had to weld in a repair first. Got that done.

Then I decided that if I was going to repaint the wells, I might as well pull the fenders and do it right. And gee, while you're at it you might as well spray the trunk too.

That means pulling the tank. With the tank out I might just as well do that center fill cap through the hood I've been scheming.

One thing leads to another. and I find myself here:

Scraping out rust proofing material and fiberglass crap put in be a well intended, but misguided, PO. As I scrapped and worked the heat gun I couldn't help but think about how little time it took to put that crap on there, and how long it is taking me to fix the damage.

It seems some rust in the corners had been "fixed" by slapping quick fiberglass patches on then gooping on thick rustproof material to hide the patch.

Now it's all gone, and I'll be welding in proper patches.

Which leads me to a question. Where can I buy pre-formed patch panels for the section highlighted here:

I can form my own, but I'd rather just buy properly shaped pieces.

The project grows. No big deal, it will just take a bit longer to complete.

surflvr911sc · surflvr911sc's Garage

I hear you Chuck! Although none of my project has ever taken me to the depths you are right now but I’m sure time will change all that. I am getting ready to install some X-mas presents and that will require replacing the rear bushings. I’m sure I’ll find some more to do once it’s all apart. Have fun!

Joeaksa · 08:06 PM

Chuck,

Sorry to see all the rust but my old 72 was the same way but much worse. I ended up using a sand blaster and a butane torch to clean a lot of it off but its messy as well. Any chance to find the sheetmetal off of a wrecked car?

BTW, did you "find the bird" while in there??

Joe

J P Stein · 12-26-2002, 08:03 PM

Over on the 914 side of the house, we call this "Dirk Wright's Disease".
Long story....he drove himself to madness with a 914.

In the text books, it's the "While I'm there syndrome"

Jack Olsen · 12-26-2002, 08:18 PM

Quote:

The plan was to completely update the suspension and brakes, install some safety equipment, shoot a quick coat of paint, then get out on the track. Not concourse stuff, just the basics.

Famous last words.

Chuck Moreland · 12-26-2002, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Joeaksa
Sorry to see all the rust but my old 72 was the same way

Actually there isn't much rust. The brown stuff you see in the picture is a brown primer.

The rust is really just a couple of spots in the corner. The two holes in the front are for bolts to hold the bumper.

The rear hole is, well it's a hole! From rust.

As I've been stripping things down I have found some old rust repair that I was not aware of. However, except for the hack job in these corners, it has all been done very well.

Finding a clean section from a wrecked car is unlikely. This section is notorious for rust. I'll fab my own if I can't find a supplier of new patch panels. I looked here:
http://www.restoration-design.com/index1.html

They make a lot of this stuff, but don't list the section I need.

Jack, I think you know something about projects that keep creeping.

emcon5 · emcon5's Garage

Chuck, looks like it is coming along well.

I am just starting a big project myself, and I am a little frightened of the "while-you-are-in-theres". Here is where I'm at, at the middle of 3 leisurely days of working, about 10 hours total effort.

After this pic, I finished removing the alternator and fan, as well as the CIS system. Tomorrow the fan shroud, and if I can scrounge up the tool, the cam sprockets, valve covers, and rockers. Planning on stripping it down to the case this weekend, and see what I have for P&Cs.

What I found so far:
-Many small oil leaks,
-Tranny fluid leak around the input shaft,
-I removed the exhaust system, and I could see a trail of oil running down from the exhaust valve guides.

-The car has been outside for the last couple months, and it has a water leak. There was standing water on the drivers floorboard, and condensation on the inside of the windows and gauges and the drivers door pocked was damp inside. Not sure where the leak is, but I am thinking drivers window.
-I need a new drain plug for my 915. I had the bright idea that it would be easier to drain the transaxle after it was out of the car (WTF was I thinking). -The drain plug was a little mangled from before, and I couldn't get it off, so I took out the fill plug and turned it on it's side to drain. While it was on its side, I worked at the drain plug and was able to get it out. You can see it draining on jackstands in the picture.
-Dropping the engine the second time is much faster then the first. I worked for about 5 hours Monday, and got everything unhooked. All that was left was to unbolt the 4 mount bolts and it was out.

I'll post more details when I know more.

Here is the obligatory Jack-Olsen-one-handed-digital-self-portrait (from the end of day 1):

Tom

Wayne 962 · Wayne 962's Garage

Hmm, we might have it here:

http://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/shopcart/911M/por_911M_chasis_main.htm

-Wayne

Chuck Moreland · 12-27-2002, 08:31 AM

Wayne, I didn't realize you had patch panels. But I don't see the one I need. Looks like the hammer and tin snips will get a workout.

Tom, so you are biting the bullet. Have you decided to rebuild or is this exploratory surgery?

emcon5 · emcon5's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by Chuck Moreland
Tom, so you are biting the bullet. Have you decided to rebuild or is this exploratory surgery?

A little of both. I don't have any reason to believe the mileage isn't accurate (111,xxx) so the plan is top end and re-ring. If I find a compelling reason to split the case I will, but I am not planning on it. When I see what I have for P&C's I can make a decision on what to do there. With my luck, I have KS, so re-ring won't be an option.

Tom

JeremyD · JeremyD's Garage

I hate it when that happens. Of course, my wife does too. The - I'll be in in 15 minutes turns into 2 hours! Sigh...

Targa Dude · Targa Dude's Garage

Hey Chuck, Looks like your doing it right! I was wondering about these patches...and what it is you mean. I've never done this.
Are you going to cut out the bad areas and fab up pieces to fill the voids and weld in place or are you going to use doublers on the inside? or outside?

Jorge (Targa Dude)

CarreraS2 · 12-27-2002, 02:59 PM

Is the gas tank as easy to remove as it would appear? A couple connections and bolts and lift it right out?

Superman · 12-27-2002, 04:06 PM

Yes, the gas tank is that easy.

I re-ringed my KS P&Cs at 182K miles and the rings seated nicely.

BGCarrera32 · 12-27-2002, 04:18 PM

Hey Chuck!

Looks like a hoot in there...not sure what your undercoating is, but if its the latex factory-like stuff (similar to Wurth StoneGuard), see if you can drum up a hot knife. Something that looks like a puddy knife that'll do a few hundred degrees should help really speed along the removal of that stuff. I recently pulled the fuel tank on my '84 and stripped all the factory coating off with a heat gun. Best success was just heating a puddy knife really hot and then scraping away...

BG

Raynald · 12-27-2002, 04:59 PM

Hello All,
it is my second restauration project on 911 car my first is a targa all what i have is hole except the rust every where...
i lost one winter to repair it changing susp. pan and rockers and floors rust was all around ... a nigthmare... i sold it !
my next one is verry nice coupé, i removed the undercoat with heat gun and i have nice clean metal it is a enjoyment...
it's not the same car of my rusty targa, it is fun to work on it when
i thing to my first 911...
your pics remind me my work on my car...
Raynald

Chuck Moreland · 12-27-2002, 07:29 PM

Jorge,

Yes, I'll be cutting away any cancer and welding in fresh metal.

Raynald,

Your picture is where I plan to be in a couple weeks time. Smells like........victory.

jpnovak · 12-28-2002, 06:04 PM

Chuck,

I have been repairing the same area on my 71 project. AFAIK, there are no panels available. The front bumper mount is a extra thick area attached to the inner fender well in front of the batt, box. That area is part of the entire fender well stamping. The easiest thing is to fab your own panel to replace any cut out rust. flat sheet stock should work well in that area. watch out for that curve outward just past the mounting holes for the bumper.

good luck

Jamie

Wayne 962 · Wayne 962's Garage

You guys are truly an inspiration. While many people tell me that they would never have the patience to write a book, I doubt that I would have the patience to do a ground-up restoration like the ones shown here...

Amazing...

-Wayne