Recapping SSI project.

[theiceman]

I have a 78SC that I just rebuilt the engine on and installed 964 grind cams. I was not planning to do anything further but just landed some SSIs .

I plan on just driving the rest of the summer as my car has been down long enough then tackling this over the winter. I would like to do a quick Recap and make sure I have not missed anything.

So I got my SSis , they are actually from a later SC so I will have to grind off the lips where it attaches to the heads.

I will need the two oil lines that come from the engine and from the thermostat

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I will need a 2-1 Muffler ( i'm looking at dansk oem style as I don't want a ton of noise ) looking for a good used one.
need a couple of muffler gaskets

Also need that funny looking wrench thing for the nuts on the exchanger.

Best part really is my current exchangers have been on brand new exhaust studs for two weeks. so should not be an issue , the issue will be the oil lines on the external stat. ( that's another project entirely )

So for those who have done this have I got everything or is there any pitfalls I need to look out for ?

Thanks Guys

[G450X]

Early SC engines adapt to minor performance enhancements very well due to their better breathing heads and higher flow CIS. I think C&D did a road test on a '78 targa and that thing was quick - something like a full second quicker to 60 than the later SC's (5.5 sec. 0-60, near 100 mph in the QM if I remember correctly), it ran more like a later Carrera 3.2.

Did you bump up the CR with different pistons? I think the factory was conservative with early SC's at 8:5:1 - if I recall the specs correctly. A 9:5:1 CR bump would yield a bit of cheap HP since you were in there with no need for twin plug heads.

I performed the SSI swap on my '82 a few years ago. I hate to see you grind down the fitted port sleeve and spacer from the SSI's, have you tried a swap with someone? It seems like one person is looking for the style they don't have quite often. I guess they are hard to come by so they snap up the first set that pops up. The sleeves fit my old SC perfect, almost a work of art how precise they were! I think the later "sleeved" SSI's are slightly harder to source as well. I think the studs are shorter on the early SC's - if you do modify them be sure to measure the exhaust studs to remove the proper amount of material.

I had to use light heat on my T stat to loosen the lines (propane worked for me), and make sure you have a proper line wrench so you don't destroy the fittings. My lower oil line was too close to the rear of my engine case for me, so I cut a small section from an old V belt and stuck it in there as a spacer to prevent rubbing - the light pressure from the oil line has kept it in place for 5+ years.

I run an M&K 2/1, I tried a 2/2, but it was too loud and droned like crazy at certain RPM's. A Dansk 2/1 should be quiter than the M&K 2/1. I like the quality and light weight of the M&K.

An early SC engine with higher CR pistons, 964 cams, and SSI's should be a blast. I plan on the same mods for my '82 plus the Max Moritz P&C set.

Good luck, let us know how it turns out and if you need any advice while you're working on it be sure to ask, this forum is great.

[theiceman]

Wow that is a fantastic write up , you are dead on, on all counts.

I grabbed these exchangers as they come up so rarely.
when I redid my engine I took out the old exhaust studs and put new longer ones in as I replaced with a set of factory exchangers from a newer car, and grinded off the lip ( mine were rusted out ) . So that part is done already.

I did not up my P and C set so I am still 8.5 :1 im okay with that though.

I have also heard he 2-2 exhaust is loud and drones so that's why I went for a 2-1 . I will look at the M&k , for me its really just about doing it at a reasonable cost.

is it possible to get a 32mm line wrench ?that looks like what I need to get the oil line off the thermostat . the other end will be cake as I just put it on two weeks ago.

[pete3799]

The new under trans. oil line will need to be tweaked a bit to fit right (if sourced from our host).
Myself and several other Pelicans have had fitment issues.
I put used thick flange SSI's ( I ground the lip off) and a Dansk sport 2 in 1 out on mine......sounds great.
I did not need any special wrenches although I had to try a few different ones to find the best fit.

[theiceman]

Thnaks Pete

where did you source your dansk sport ? and how can you tell if its a sport visually from a non sport ( I may get a used one if I can )

[will hung]

Mine came with the wrench, but I ordered the wrong size nuts so the wrench didn't work, so I installed them with a combination of wrenches. Make sure to put copper grease on the exhaust studs so that you can easily remove the exhaust at a later date.

I have a Dansk 2-1 muffler, sounds great. Fairly quite at low speeds, but comes alive over 4k rpm.

[pete3799]

Originally Posted by theiceman

Thnaks Pete

where did you source your dansk sport ? and how can you tell if its a sport visually from a non sport ( I may get a used one if I can )

Got it from our host. Not sure if you can visually tell them apart aside from the part number. Mine is 10-1010-159-M350 with 70mm stainless tail pipe.

[Reiver]

Iceman....you are on the right track with the Dansk 2/1...it really works well with the SSi's and better breathing ports.
If you go to an M&K or any other more 'open' muffler you'll gain noise but move your torque sweet spot higher on the rpm scale....I think they are high enough as they are.

Glad you have finally gotten everything sorted.

[frosty2]

Hi there iceman were a bouts in Ontario are you and did you do the rebuild on your engine yourself. I just happen to have a 73t with a 2.4 in need of a rebuild if you know someone that's handy.

[vesnyder]

I have an '83 SC convertible and installed the SSI's two Winter's ago. I went with the M&K and 1 out and I like it. Saved me some weight and gives me a more aggressive sound. My wife told me it does not sound like a 911 any more - that hurt!!

[merlinfe]

For the nuts on the heat exchangers, I used a regular wrenches heated and bent to the shape I needed. I used a MAPP torch from NAPA (auto parts store in the States) and a breaker bar to bend them (you'll need a vice too unless you have a friend without pain receptors to hold the molten hot tool). Worked great.

The oil lines are a son of a gun to get off. I used the MAPP torch again, but found that any residue or oil on the lines CAUGHT ON FIRE. Yup. Fire. That being said, I had an extinguisher very close by.

To get off the line connection at the rear passenger side of the car, I ended up cutting a 4x4 to the size I needed to support the line from the ground and used a pipe wrench with a breaker bar to wrench it off. We're not really re-using these lines, why be cautious?

Getting the T-Stat lines off was perplexing. I had to remove the clamp that holds on both oil lines directly behind the wheel and tire and put in spacers to push the lines as far away from the body of the car as possible so I could get a pipe wrench on the back side of the T-Stat nuts. They only needed to move about 1.5 inches toward you. You have to do this because there is no real good way to get a bite on the nut in the loosening direction otherwise. After I got the wrench and breaker bar on I applied even steady pressure to the nut and it came off like butta (ok maybe a few hits with Mjölnir the sledge hammer, because I was furious at this point).

Putting the new lines in was a puzzle at first. You have two options. Put the lines where you think they may need to go and tighten them after they are all hooked up, or put them where you think they should go and forcibly put them where they belong. I choose the later because trying to get them at just the right angle proved fruitless. Your results may vary. Either way, there will be cussing involved. Most of your old hardware won't fit back into its original place, so count on buying at least some self locking nuts and a fews bolts here and there.

As far as HAZMAT goes, I used capriciously large amounts of high temp copper anti-sieze on the bolts for the headers. Cheap insurance. You will also need at least 12 quarts of oil to refill everything. Mine took 11 3/4 after a top off at operating temperature and at idle. It was a bit shocking how much oil went in.

Muffler choices are all personal preference and really speak to the owner. Do you like a stock sound and appearance? Do you like bonkers loud? I did a lot of research and stuck with the center out look I had with my M&K 1-in 2-center out muffler. I found a rare Dansk unit brand new that is 2-in 2-center out and sounds soooo good. Great idle, a howl that will make your toes curl and a burbling gurgling coast back down when you're off throttle. For me and my 6 year old son, its just the right mixture of cup car and street car. What ever you choose, don't be upset when the exhaust doesn't fit perfectly the first try. They make these things on jigs set up for what they thought was a good set up. Your SSIs may be slightly misaligned or skewed. Mine were (ever so slightly) and required a massage to get them in place with the new muffler.

Enjoy and post your progress.

- Steve

[theiceman]

Originally Posted by frosty2

Hi there iceman were a bouts in Ontario are you and did you do the rebuild on your engine yourself. I just happen to have a 73t with a 2.4 in need of a rebuild if you know someone that's handy.

actually I did the rebuild myself , have a few teething isues but nothing too serious. One leak I might go back in and redo but im having too much fun right now.

I actually am very good friends with the guy who rebuilds Randys engines for him at whaletail. a great guy . Im not sure he wants to do end user cars but he has done quite a few 2.4s already.
if you want PM me your contact info and il let him know . he can reach out to you.

[theiceman]

some great posts here and great advice, so glad I started this thread. Steve your adventure with the lines is one I am about to start. does anyone know if there is such a thing as a 32mm line wrench ? I may just cut the pipe and slide on a regular crescent wrench. I am just worried about the threads on the stat but lots of great advice here. Only me to blame if I screw it up. PITA that they made the one to the engine the one at the back I cant access. Figures.

[will hung]

I used a huge crescent wrench to remove mine. On the thermostat lines, I found that heat expanded the aluminum thermostat faster than the oil lines, so it actually binded it up more. Since I knew I wasn't reusing the oil lines, I cut the nut, axially with a Dremel and split it with a flat head screw driver. You have to be careful, cutting just a little at a time to avoid cutting the threads on the thermostat.

That first start up with the SSI's and Dansk made all the cost and work totally worth it. The improvement in heat and power were just icing on the cake.

[theiceman]

yup Will that's exactly what I was thinking. Heat might work against me with steel encasing much faster expanding aluminum.

I like the dremmel idea. did you do it right on the car ?

[Sliver911]

My 2 Cents - I have a 79 SC with Early Heat Exchangers + M&K 2 in 2 out. while the drone is high at mid-RPM, you can have Rarlyl8 send you a cap for one side and that makes it very drivable with the option to remove. Rarlyl8 makes both internal and external caps. They can both be fitted with a drilled hole through the cap and muffler tip. If you have someone you can trust to fit, drill and spot-weld a nut on the inside of the pipe with hex nut through the outside (external cap) or the reverse on the internal, it can be a great compromise- I've done a 7 hour drive with the cap on and its very easy on the ears.

[will hung]

Originally Posted by theiceman

yup Will that's exactly what I was thinking. Heat might work against me with steel encasing much faster expanding aluminum.

I like the dremmel idea. did you do it right on the car ?

Yep, rear in the air and rear wheels removed. I removed both that way. Once you start to split the nut, it comes off very easily.

The previous owner rebuilt the engine before selling due to broken head studs. As a result, I was like you and had new exhaust studs to turn, so I had no issues removing the exhaust nuts. I still put the rear in the air and hit them with Kroil twice a day for a week before starting.

I did have a couple issues though, I couldn't loosen the oil line that ties into the driver's side of the crank case. I ended up cutting my middle oil return line and replaced it with an expandable one. It was the only way I could loosen it and then tighten it enough to prevent leaking. You might be able to find a smaller wrench than I used to access the nut for the line.

Like others, I had issues with the oil line that runs under the gearbox lining up. I heated it and coaxed it into place.

And the final issue I had was with the clutch cable Omega spring. It came into contact with the pinch weld on the heat exchanger, so I shaped it using a hammer.

[JJ 911SC]

Originally Posted by will hung

... Since I knew I wasn't reusing the oil lines, I cut the nut, axially with a Dremel and split it with a flat head screw driver. You have to be careful, cutting just a little at a time to avoid cutting the threads on the thermostat...

I did just that but re-use the lines:

Originally Posted by JJ 911SC

Even with the whole system removed and using a large pipe wrench the two nut on the thermostat would not move... So before ripping out the threads, I split both nuts using a Dremmel and use the Elephant Nuts as recommended below by Ayles and pete3799. Not a drip after 3 years.


Pelican Parts - Product Information: ERMP-0170000




Before




3 years later

[G450X]

I forgot to add that if you really want a quieter system than the M&K (or Dansk), you can't go wrong with an original '74 type 2/1. I have one and ran it for a while, but in the end I liked the M&K "roar" when I hit higher rpm's (but it sounded nice as well).

A comment on fit - my M&K had to be tweaked a bit to fit. The OEM 2/1 fit perfectly with no tweaking, so I don't think it was the SSI's that caused fit issues - they seemed to me to be about as perfect as humanly possible! As my English friend says, " damn, that is a nice piece of "kit" - American craftsmanship at its finest!

[GothingNC]

Iceman,

The prior owner of my Targa (Charlie Stylianos) had the following upgrades installed during the top end rebuild:

JE CIS Pistons (Static Compression Ratio 9.7:1)
Elgin SC330 Cams
Intake Ports and Runners Ported and Blended to 36mm
SSI Heat Exchangers
Dansk 2 in one Out Sport Muffler

Dansk Exhaust system sounds great, not too loud when cruising but when you stomp on the throttle it sings beautifully, a few of my friends that were following me thought I had a Ferrari engine stuffed in the back of the Targa.



Dyno after he finished the rebuild, HP is at the wheels (need to add back about 15%)