3.2 Carrera with a poltergeist

[GH85Carrera]

I put in a call to the Ghostbusters. I got out the proton pack and went to work my 911

Actually I swapped out both of the crank sensors and the head temperature sensor "while I was in there." Since the head temp sensor uses the same grommet and is connected to the engine harness in the same spot it is pretty easy to just do all three.

With some trepidation and for sure not 100% confidence I fired it up and it ran perfect but it always has when cold. I then went for a drive, but I stayed within a couple of miles of my house. I got it up to 180 degrees and had no problems. I got home and ate lunch. Then I went for a 30 minute drive. It was only 70 degrees outside so the engine will not get above 185 degrees. It ran flawlessly.

As this point I THINK it is cured. All I can figure is one or both of the flywheel sensors was flaky. Since it is just a one hour process to actually swap them I am annoyed at myself I was sure they were OK. They tested out fine but I never could test them when they were hot enough to show a fault. The head temp sensor was likely OK, but it was a for sure easy swap while the other sensors were being swapped.

If it starts having issues again I will revive this thread. If not I will consider the car cured. If your find this thread while researching problems, don't assume it is for sure the crank sensors, but for sure they are a source of a seeming poltergeist.

I celebrated the fix with my favorite beer. Darn good beer!

[ganun]

Alright Glen!
Dunk them in hot water or hot oil to get them HOT and test them. Just to see

[AHudson]

A mildly hesitant 'congratulations!' while you continue to test and review this hopeful success!

Let's hope the poltergeist has packed up and moved onto more fertile ground, like some Italian car where they can be more entertaining.

Do you have a link or a recommendation on the speed sensor and CHT? Just making sure I get the right thing if this is my next step.

[GH85Carrera]

I bought the speed sensors right here on Pelican. Part number 12-14-1-708-619-M14 and get two of them.

They are the BMW part but they are two of them for the price of one 911 sensor. That Porsche tax is silly in this situation.

The head sensor one is the Bosch part Pelican sells part number 930-606-915-00-M14. The new grommet in on the head sensor so if the old grommet is toast you need the new head temp sensor anyway. As I said, while you are in there......

Those sensors go in a certain order. It is important or really vital that you get them back on in the same order. Put a dob of paint on the top connection and two dobs of paint on the bottom sensor before you pull them out of the engine compartment. Put the same marking of paint on the new sensors so you KNOW what position they plug into the engine harness.

Today the local weather is forecast to be mid 80s. That is hot enough to get the engine up to full heat soak. I drove the car to work today just to test it at lunch time. It is like having a dog that bit you once. I want to pet it again but it will have to earn the full trust before I relax. I drove it over 5,500 miles just back in June and it ran perfectly the entire trip. I am just so glad it waited until a few months after that trip to have issues.

I will hit the old sensors with my heat gun and get them to 200-250 degrees and see if the ohms read the same this weekend if I have time. I will do that and report back whenever I get to it.

[mysocal911]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

I sent my DME in to Steve Wong be checked and repaired. His reply was:

I was going to let you know all is fixed and finished testing and full road testing out yesterday and runs perfect now. You had a failed ignition circuit and part of your problem was due to an out of spec capacitor that just ages out with heat and time, so that has been replaced with a new Japanese made Nichicon high temp capacitor which is the highest grade and temp rated capacitor available. You should be good now. I might suggest to ohm and check the resistance of your coil primary and secondary to make sure they are in spec, just in case so it’s not a contributor or stressing out the ignition circuit in the DME.

--------------------------------------

So soon I should have a running 911 again!

I will post a final wrap up with the final results after driving it for a while.

So it now appears that your "rebuilder" charged you for an unnecessary "rebuild".

[ClickClickBoom]

Originally Posted by mysocal911

So it now appears that your "rebuilder" charged you for an unnecessary "rebuild".

Read,
He sent it to Steve Wong for "testing and repair". Seems that Steve found a component on the board that was out of spec and replaced it. Unless you work on FAA stuff, rebuild is a very generic concept ranging from Metric Mechanics to JWE. Not sure why you are picking at this......

Nice that the fix was relatively simple!

[mysocal911]

Originally Posted by ClickClickBoom

Read,
He sent it to Steve Wong for "testing and repair". Seems that Steve found a component on the board that was out of spec and replaced it. Unless you work on FAA stuff, rebuild is a very generic concept ranging from Metric Mechanics to JWE. Not sure why you are picking at this......

Nice that the fix was relatively simple!

Always an easy way to sell an unnecessary "rebuild", i.e. "found a component on the board that was
out of spec and replaced it", right?

Could have bought a lot of cases of Erdinger Beer!

[CCM911]

It was well worth the rebuild. Whether you use Ingo or Steve, these guys are very reputable and have nothing to gain by selling you unnecessary work. 3.2 boxes are failing right and left lately, so the OP ultimately saved himself another breakdown further down the road. I say it was money well spent.

[scarceller]

I just received a DME from a customer to be inspected and tested. This DME is missing all 4 screws for the heat sinks on the lower board! DME was working but the standoffs are completely loose and rattling around inside the DME and the owner had no idea! You just never know what you'll find when looking at these DMEs. I had another one a few years back that had same 4 screws missing and the heat standoffs as well! Often these DMEs have aftermarket chips and the owners don't know. Is it worth sending the DME for inspection and eval by a professional, you decide based on your ability.

[stephen1070]

Originally Posted by mysocal911

Always an easy way to sell an unnecessary "rebuild", i.e. "found a component on the board that was
out of spec and replaced it", right?

Could have bought a lot of cases of Erdinger Beer!

Do we know for certain that the original poster was inappropriately sold DME services as described above? The entire thread seems to indicate that the rebuild services that were provided were appropriate. If this is the case, the above post seems inappropriate. Please let me know if I am reading this thread incorrectly.

[gomezoneill]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

I bought the speed sensors right here on Pelican. Part number 12-14-1-708-619-M14 and get two of them.

They are the BMW part but they are two of them for the price of one 911 sensor. That Porsche tax is silly in this situation.

The head sensor one is the Bosch part Pelican sells part number 930-606-915-00-M14. The new grommet in on the head sensor so if the old grommet is toast you need the new head temp sensor anyway. As I said, while you are in there......

Those sensors go in a certain order. It is important or really vital that you get them back on in the same order. Put a dob of paint on the top connection and two dobs of paint on the bottom sensor before you pull them out of the engine compartment. Put the same marking of paint on the new sensors so you KNOW what position they plug into the engine harness.

Today the local weather is forecast to be mid 80s. That is hot enough to get the engine up to full heat soak. I drove the car to work today just to test it at lunch time. It is like having a dog that bit you once. I want to pet it again but it will have to earn the full trust before I relax. I drove it over 5,500 miles just back in June and it ran perfectly the entire trip. I am just so glad it waited until a few months after that trip to have issues.

I will hit the old sensors with my heat gun and get them to 200-250 degrees and see if the ohms read the same this weekend if I have time. I will do that and report back whenever I get to it.

Thorow them out and forget about it. Keeping them around will give you bad Joo Joo.

[gomezoneill]

I would consider rebuilding the DME preventive maintenance a good idea. I'm thinking of having my DME and two cdis redone since they're so old. Not worth breaking down and being stranded.No matter the cost peace of mind is the issue.

[DanielDudley]

When all was said and done with my car, it appears as if I had two issues. A hot running issue appears to have been caused by the cylinder head temp sensor. However, the hot start/no start issue was a bad connection in the wire from the DME relay to the fuel pump.

Your DME wire runs to the fuel pump fuse, and from there to the fuel pump. Check and verify that the screws on the fuse block are tight, and that the fuse is sound and the contacts are clean. A lot of juice runs through that circuit to the pump, and these connections are getting on in years. It's just a PM thing.

I would also just like to say here that both Sal and Ingo spent time helping me get my car running, and they spend a lot of time here helping people for free. These guys deserve thanks, and they deserve your business.

Ingo tested my DME, and he flat out told me that it worked, but that it looked like hell in there. Well, I saw it, and I knew it was true, so I let him go over it for me. Later, when I was having wiring issues with my 3.2 conversion, Sal went over the wiring with me, and sent me diagrams and a checklist. He spent a lit of time on the phone with me. In the future when I do upgrades, I am going to remember that. And I think we know that Steve W has a reputation for being a straight shooter as well.

These guys have made major contributions to our community, and for many of us, they are the reason why our cars run today.

[mysocal911]

Originally Posted by stephen1070

Do we know for certain that the original poster was inappropriately sold DME services as described above? The entire thread seems to indicate that the rebuild services that were provided were appropriate. If this is the case, the above post seems inappropriate. Please let me know if I am reading this thread incorrectly.

Did you overlook this:

I happily put in the DME with the fresh repair and full bench test from Steve Wong and went for the test drive. It ran like my 911 is supposed to while warming up. I was smiling and figured my 911 was exorcised of the ghost. It got to full temp and I was enjoying my car again. Driving along at 50 MPH a couple miles from my house it was like someone pulled the coil wire. The tech was still reading but there was no go pedal. I started my right foot madly pumping away and it would relight for a few seconds.

And then this:

My garage in on the side of my house and it is easier to back into the bay I use for maintenance. As it sat there for the second needed to stop and get into reverse it idled fine but as I went to back up it died. It started up and died a few times before I backed into the garage. By the time I finished cussing and got out the test equipment it had cooled enough to have no issues to find. It is like chasing a ghost.

I am ready to throw some more parts at it. New flywheel sensors and new head temp sensors. I already have a spare fuel pump I take with me on my long road trips. I may throw that at it as well.

Please re-read the complete thread.

Here's what should've been done:

Originally Posted by ischmitz

One "honest" way to segment a DME from other components is to offer a loaner DME for diagnostics. I have done this several times both to prove the DME was NOT the issue and to show a good DME is running a car.

[gomezoneill]

They're called mistakes everyone makes them. Dave

[stephen1070]

Originally Posted by mysocal911

Did you overlook this:



And then this:



Please re-read the complete thread.

Here's what should've been done:

I did read the entire thread. The DME was not incorrectly diagnosed nor was it repaired by a rebuilder that makes repairs that are unnecessary. Two posts in this thread paint an unfair picture of the rebuilder.

[mysocal911]

Originally Posted by gomezoneill

They're called mistakes everyone makes them. Dave

Yes, that's true but unfortunate. As has been posted, another rebuilder takes an alternate approach
which can potentially benefit the customer in the long run.

Bottom Line: The "shotgun approach" to troubleshooting can be very costly in time and money!

[McLaren-TAG]

Originally Posted by mysocal911

Bottom Line: The "shotgun approach" to troubleshooting can be very costly in time and money!

So why not just say this and cut out the beating up on other contributors? I think we all know when we get into these cars what the issues are. This forum is a great help and personally I wouldn't be able to afford my car if I didn't have this resource. That being said, contribute or don't post. You being all accusatory of other people's practices does nothing.

There are many times when there just isn't ONE problem to the cars, some time problems lead to other problems or we're left diagnosing two issues that when combined really throw people off and you fix one and still have to contend with the other. There's no proof that the ECU repair wasn't warranted so why make the stink about it especially if the owner is okay with paying for his peace of mind.

I've added some of the details here to my no start knowledge base the next time I come across it, thank you very much.

[Omegaman]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

I put in a call to the Ghostbusters. I got out the proton pack and went to work my 911

Actually I swapped out both of the crank sensors and the head temperature sensor "while I was in there." Since the head temp sensor uses the same grommet and is connected to the engine harness in the same spot it is pretty easy to just do all three.

With some trepidation and for sure not 100% confidence I fired it up and it ran perfect but it always has when cold. I then went for a drive, but I stayed within a couple of miles of my house. I got it up to 180 degrees and had no problems. I got home and ate lunch. Then I went for a 30 minute drive. It was only 70 degrees outside so the engine will not get above 185 degrees. It ran flawlessly.

As this point I THINK it is cured. All I can figure is one or both of the flywheel sensors was flaky. Since it is just a one hour process to actually swap them I am annoyed at myself I was sure they were OK. They tested out fine but I never could test them when they were hot enough to show a fault. The head temp sensor was likely OK, but it was a for sure easy swap while the other sensors were being swapped.

If it starts having issues again I will revive this thread. If not I will consider the car cured. If your find this thread while researching problems, don't assume it is for sure the crank sensors, but for sure they are a source of a seeming poltergeist.

I celebrated the fix with my favorite beer. Darn good beer!

Good you got it fixed! I thought the crank sensor would be the culprit.

[GH85Carrera]

I have no doubt whatsoever that I had a dual issue. The ignition circuit on the DME was an issue. Steve fixed that and I have no problems with his services. The two flywheel sensors and the head temp sensor were a package fix. Personally I can't imagine doing the two sensors and not doing the head temp sensor, or the head temp sensor and not the two crank sensors. That is just my opinion, yours may different.

This weekend it will be in the mid 80s and I plan on a one hour drive and another test of the system. I do have a loaner DME with me that I have not used. It is just there as a belts and suspender backup. I really don't expect to need it.

It is a 31 year old car with 166,000 miles on it. I plan to drive it to Spokane next summer. Another long road trip and part of my quest to drive my Porsche in all the lower 48 states. Canada is already been checked off the list.

If you have never had your DME checked out, I would recommend you pick the guy you trust the most and send it in to be double checked. It will fail at some point. I have built some Heatkits in the past but I don't have the skills or the equipment or knowledge to really know what I am doing on an inspection or any repairs for a DME. I do know my limits.