Bilstein Engine Flush?

[ohecht]

Does anyone have any experiences with this or opinions on the value?

http://www.motorlife.com/

I saw it recommended for Jeep engines, but I am not sure for our air-cooled motors. If you look at the "cleaning cycle" link, I wonder how it would work on a dry-sump system with a large tank and oil lines through the thermostat to the engine and front oil coolers, etc.

So far, I have been using Techron and Berryman's occasionally, but the idea of a better internal cleaning appeals to me if it is safe and effective.

Olivier

[jmohn]

Why would you think this is necessary? Is this for a car you just bought? Personally, when I buy a used car, I much prefer just shortening the oil change intervals (to 1000-1200 miles) for a few cycles and allowing a medium I trust (high quality motor oil) to perform the cleaning. I also prefer short oil change intervals, typically 3000 miles, regardless of manufacturer recommendations. I have an inherent (and perhaps unrational) distrust of "motor flushing" solvents and third party, motor oil additives (i.e. "Prolong", Slick 50, etc.). I do, however, treat one tankful of fuel with Techron injector cleaner every spring (still a Porsche recommended product, I think). I have never (in forty years and more vehicles than I'd car to count) ever had a lubrication related problem with any engine ... well...there was that '50 Buick I bought when I was 15, but I still maintain there was "click" in the motor when I bought it

Jerry M
'78 SC

[Jim Sims]

I'm suspicious of the contaminant remanent (after a regular oil change) claims. Even if it is true, one would be likely very quickly be back to this level of contaminants after a short period of normal operation.

If you are using a good deterent motor oil (as almost all modern oils are) it would be better to just change the oil and filter more often (like every 3000 miles). I can do a dino oil and filter change (a Mahle filter) for my 911 for a cost of about $30 in about 20 minutes.

One of my retired colleagues related a story of buying a '56 Chevrolet as a young man. He got it home and took a valve cover off and much to his horror he found the rocker arms were so covered with sludge that they were just amorphous shapes. Apparently, the previous owner had not changed the oil enough but instead just added new oil when it ran low. My colleague put the rocker cover back on, pulled the drain plug and stuck a screwdriver up through the sludge so it would drain. He refilled the car with deterent oil and ran the car for a few hundred miles and then changed the oil again and ran for a few hundred more miles. The rocker arms cleaned completely up by the 2nd change and he drove the car for five more years or so. Why mess with a flush?

Cheers, Jim

[TimT]

I get my daily drivers oil changed at a jiffy lube, not at the 3000 mile jiffy lube recommendation, but at double that interval. The jiffy lube has one of those flush machines, and Im thinking of having them use the bilstein machine on my tow vehicle.

Ive seen it used on other cars, and it seems like a high quality, well thought out maintenance system (probabably conceived for the trucking industry). The Bilstien Krups name also gives it cachet, doesnt seem like a fly by night idea.

Youd be surprised at the crap that come out of an engine that has received regular oil changes..

[carnut169]

If you ever have a car with a bit of "sludge" in the motor you can always run a quart of trans fluid with the oil for a couple hundred miles... change and repeat until everything looks clean. At the auction we often see this as a regular problem (lease turn-ins get sold by the 1000's) as folks who only own cars for 3 years occasionally never change the oil. Toyota V6's are the very worst, followed by Land Rovers, then BMWs. The local BMW dealer told us about the trans fluid trick and we have been doing it for years. It loosens the deposits slowly as it breaks them down- do it too quickly and you start glogging things like pick-up screens & then you have trouble.

[HarryD]

Originally posted by carnut169
If you ever have a car with a bit of "sludge" in the motor you can always run a quart of trans fluid with the oil for a couple hundred miles... change and repeat until everything looks clean. At the auction we often see this as a regular problem (lease turn-ins get sold by the 1000's) as folks who only own cars for 3 years occasionally never change the oil. Toyota V6's are the very worst, followed by Land Rovers, then BMWs. The local BMW dealer told us about the trans fluid trick and we have been doing it for years. It loosens the deposits slowly as it breaks them down- do it too quickly and you start glogging things like pick-up screens & then you have trouble.

ATF!!!!!

There was a thread on this topic and the general consensus was that this treatment has more risk than benefit due tot he tolerance and temperatures encounted in a P-car engine.

The ATF trick was used long ago when motor oils had little or no detergent properties. The new formulations include detergents to break loose and remove crud. As noted by other posters, if you suspect crud, chenge your oil more often until it is clean.

my $0.02

[Silveresrty911S]

It's also an old diesel engine additive for cleaning up the engine and injection when added to the fuel tank, it was OK for my old 86 Ford diesel but not for the new high pressure injection systems like my new Power Stroke.

Rick

[Mr9146]

I have a friend who works for the Bilstein Engine flush people, and he tells me that it's pretty much a joke. Oh, and his dad helped design the system. He didn't say that it was a joke, just that it was "pretty much" a joke. Those machines are for mechanics (read: dealerships) who need to hose their customers and for customers who don't know anything to feel better about changing their oil. Nothing that the system uses is harmful to the car ... unless, of course, all the cleaning goo isn't flushed out before new oil is added. And how are you supposed to know when it's all been flushed out? The best soultion is to just stay away.

[HarryD]

Duh...

I just read the web site and have a question.

If draining the oil will not remove that 1/2 quart of contaminated oil, how does circulating the oil get the remianing oil to move? The implication of the description is that the contaminants are "stuck" on the sides and will not come off.

Also, if I am truly concerned about contaminants, lets do some math. (I'm an engineer, I can't help myself).

1/2 qt contaminated oil plus 10 qts clean oil is about a 95% reduction (0.5/10.5) in unwanted stuff (assuming that the clean oil has no contaminants. If I change the oil again after a few hundred miles, I should not have added much contamination so my 95% reduction is reduced by another 95% or something like a total of 99% of the contaminants are removed for the cost of two oil changes. Is a treatment by this thing cheaper than one oil change since I will need to pay for one anyway?

[ohecht]

The fact that the Jeep dealership wants $180 for the service is not a mark in its favor, either.

I appreciate everyone's thoughts and experiences. I would never try this on a 911 engine, due to the uniqe way the oil system is designed.

Maybe for a gummed up Jeep engine that Berryman's could not clean, if it was a lot cheaper!

Olivier

[Noel]

Tom and Ray from Car Talk called this procedure the Wallet Vac.