Engine drop question

[Doug Zielke]

The other thread about dropping the engine has got me wondering....
Could you use an engine hoist (the hydraulic armed, cherry picker type) to lift up the rear of the car? I was thinking you could sling a chain from the hoist to the engine mounts at the rear corners. Some eye bolts might replace the engine mounting bolts for the lifting process.

The idea of hoisting the car up real high, and then having it teeter on jack stands worrys me.
I reckon you should be able to put your furniture dolly under the motor, let it drop, then use the hoist to lift the body clear, rolling the motor away. Will it work?

[stormcrow]

Yes you can Dough, I have done that when I removed/installed my engine. I used a jack under the transmission, and the hoist was used with a come-a-long which I used as a winch with a pulley at the end of the hoist and the hook going to the rear engine mount.

It did the job without fear of the engine falling or being damaged during removal/installation.

Steve

[Rot 911]

Doug, without a doubt it will work, but with a good set of jack stands your 911 will hardly be "teetering" when jacked up. Mine is rock solid on the stands.

[KTL]

Doug,

Here's the rig the ebay guy has made to do this. If you lift the car from the motor mounts doesn't the picker get in the way of sliding the motor out? I guess you come at the car from an angle with the picker? My picker has pretty long legs so i'm not sure if it'd work for me.



If you're leary about the lift height with jack stands, you can support the tires with 2X12X3 ft. wood pieces. I take the bumper off for a little more clearance as well. It's only a bother the first time. Next time around, you've already freed-up the rusty nuts on the bellows.

[Doug Zielke]

Originally posted by KTL
.....

Here's the rig the ebay guy has made to do this....

That lifting bar is exactly what I had in mind. I'm going to weld up a prototype. With the cherry-picker, it should do the trick. Thanks!

[emcon5]

What I did was buy some 6 ton jackstands from harbor freight. Way stronger than I needed, but nice and tall with a pretty wide base. I also nailed a length of 4x4 to a 2' long 2x12 to make a pair of elevated chocks for the front. Maybe this wasn't necessary, but my car is fairly low, with a chin spoiler, and I didn't want to hit the floor with it while the butt was in the air. I was planning to buy a furniture cart and mod it for the engine, but my Father-in-law (in whose garage I did all this) had some casters and a pile of assorted lumber, so I built my own using some scrap 2x6's and plywood.

The center piece lines up under the case, with the gap in the center providing clearance for the sump plate. The side pieces line up under the heat exchangers, but don't provide any support. Just balance, to keep it from falling over.

Unfortunately it is a little tall, so I needed to raise the butt a little more than had I used something else.

I ended up only raising the car about 2 feet, then lowered the engine & transaxle down to the cart.


Once it was on the ground, we moved the floor jacks to the jack points and raised the back of the car until it cleared the engine. I took the valance off so it didn't have to go as high.



As soon as it was out, we dropped the car back down to a more reasonable level. It was pretty high up, but it seemed stable.

We reinstalled it the same way, Raise the car, roll the motor underneath, lower the car about half way, raise the engine. It seemed like a good compromise.

Tom

[Roland Kunz]

Hello

Just a tip from my side:

Remove the lid.

get a good lifting rope and sling it trough the rear hole from the eginecarrier.

Lift the car up on the carrier and place the stands.
Then let it down untill the wight is on the jackstands.

remove all apendix and then lift again and set the jackstand lower place a roller under the engine/trany with the middle under the cyl 3/6 ( heavy point ).

Remove the front carrier bolts, then the rear bolts and let the unit down with the hoist. if the engine is placed correct and sits on the board or europalette then remove the rope stick the screws back in and use them to sling the rope around the inner corners from the screw then lift the rear end, the rope will get thight and you lift the rerar up untill the engine can be slided out.

So this explains why Porsche desigend it THAT way.
The rig is incorporatet from the factory and clever mechanics see it.

Grüsse

[ohecht]

I know this is an old thread...but I am hoping someone more on the amateur side can help with me with some specs and measurements for the jack, stands, balance point, and dolly. I have seen different numbers in different places, and I am hoping to get a combination known to work. The car is a 82 SC, euro height.

- Where should the jack be placed on the engine to balance the engine and transmission as an assembly? It seems to be at the furthest forward cylinders, but can anyone be more specific?

- What range floor jack works best? In combination with the lifted car height, removing the rear valence, how high does it need to go, and how low to clear the dolly after lowering?

- Does anyone have a sheet showing the best measurements for the dolly, including the clearance related to getting the jack out?

- What height jack stands are best, or total height if using wood, etc. beneath them?

I know these are all related, and I am hoping someone with experience or who kept good notes can give me a combination of the right lift height, jack range, and dolly design that will allow me to safely lower the engine and transmission onto the floor with wheels and avoid getting the jack caught beneath the engine.

Also, anyone who has lifting techniques for getting the motor into a truck bed? I would use at least 3, probably four people, but I am curious as to where to lift, what else to watch out for, how to rest the engine in the truck, etc.

Thanks in advance.

Olivier

[Superman]

Good questions. As far as jackstands go, the bigger the better. You'll be glad later if you choose oversized jackstands today.

The engine will be easy for 4 guys to lift into a truck. It can just sit on its heat exchangers. The rear of the car needs to be raised pretty high (like about two feet at the torsion tube covers), but it's stable at that height if you use the herculean jackstands I'm recommending.

The balance point is between #2 and #3 cylinder, roughly. Release the engine mounts first. Lower the engine so that it is parallel with the ground, then release the tranny mouts. The engine will balance and slide right out.

[ChrisBennet]

Like Superman said, don't worry about the car being tippy. It is very solid.
The motor, however, is a different story. It does take a litte experimenting to find the balance point. Note that on 3.2's the balance point is a little to the left of the engine center because of the catalytic converter.
-Chris

[boyt911sc]

Take a good look at ENCON5 set-up. That's a very ideal and I like it. You probably need a second person to assist you during the pull out.

Due to this predicament of getting a second person when you need one, I was forced to come up with similar method that could easily be done solo (one-man operation). Most important safely. Instead of using floor jacks, I used 2 chain hoists to lift the car. This is a totally different technique from the common practice.

I would not recommend that you remove your engine the first time by yourself.

[Superman]

All true. While it is certainly possible, and even relatively easy, to drop an engine alone, I can report that it is plenty exciting to have 600 lbs of high performance engine and tranny balanced on the tip of a floor jack.

[cary]

Just a little bit more info.

When I have my car way up there. I put the tires on and put cement blocks under the tires. Just In Case.............

A Once of Prevention..............

[jhugh]

I bought big 6ton jackstands too. They worked great under the ends of the rear torsion bars. If you use the jackstands but don't have a hoist to pick the car up, then just be careful when you jack the car from the side. You're going to need some pretty intense height, which big jackstands can give you. But you can easily jack too much at a time from one side and the opposite torsion bar end can slip off the stand! I did that once. Luckily the wheel was on the car and nothing broke. Very lucky.

Cheers,

[buttjoint]

Just did mine by myself and no problem. I used regular jackstands small cheap floorjack and the 80.00 motercycle jack from cosco. Jacked it almost to the full extended higth of the jackstands at torsion tubes rolled the m/c jack with plywood platform 28x28in under car dropped the engine jacked up car six more inches put jackstands on concrete blocks, rolled out my 3.2. Done deal

[targa80]

I did an engine drop and rebuild about 3 years ago. I read a thread on the rennlist back then about a U shaped dolly. I built one from a dolly I bought at Harbor freight and some L shaped brackets from Home Depot to add strenghth to the corners of the U shape. The dolly sits around 6 1/2" high and is 30'' long and 18" wide. I purchased a 2 1/2 ton floor jack from Harbor Freight that rises to 19" . I also bought two jack stands from Harbor Freight that will extend up to 24". I rolled the dolly under the car and put the jack under the engine for support removed the two bolts holding the engine at the rear cross member then lowered it onto the dolly. I used a jack pad and the jack to raise the body so I could disconnect the two bolts at the the transmission cross member. I then jacked the car up one side at a time until the car was sitting on the fully extended jack stands. This set up worked great for me and didn't cost a lot .

[Silveresrty911S]

CONCRETE BLOCKS!!
You guys are brave, use something solid like 4" or 6" x 12 blocks of wood. You'd be surprised how easy it is to break a concrete block once it has a small facture in it. BE SAFE, sorry to be a party pooper. For 20.00 you could get 4- 6"x12" x 2' blocks cut from a lumber yard.

Rick

[ohecht]

Thanks for all the techniques, tools, and measurements. I will see what I can gather together.

Olivier

[A Quiet Boom]

And to think I just put the car up on jackstands and lower the motor with a forklift! I do however pad the forks which I push together so they center under the case. In all seriousness though be sure to move the motor back as you lower it so the shift rod clears the hole in the tunnel.

[david c.]

I just did this yesterday. I have to say that I agree with Cary and others that having large wooden blocks under the car (in addition to the jackstands) certainly eases your mind a bit. When you are reinstalling the motor and aiming the gearbox into the tunnel, it made me feel a whole lot better knowing that there was more than two jackstands between my feet and the 911.