PCA Concours College

[RichardNew]

Concours events have become extremely competitive. I decided to see just how crazy it can get. I recently attended a PCA Concours College.

Here's what I learned



Richard Newton

[DRACO A5OG]

LOL, behind the brake pedal for dirt. Oh well, chalk me up as a Concours Flunky . I actually drive my car like a natural human being :P

[Balloonmeister]

I was at the PCA Parade in Monterey a couple of years ago watching my buddy's 1985 911 cabriolet being judged at the Concours. After scouring around the inside of the car for their allotted time period and finding some things wrong, the final straw was when a judge opened the little cap covering the nut securing a windshield wiper and ran his white glove on the inside of the cap and found "dirt". We both burst out laughing. I don't think the judge thought it was that funny.

[carreradpt]

I volunteered to be a judge in some old Whistler weekends concourses and it was a blast. You got to take a close look at some cool cars and see what they look like all cleaned up. It was fun and I learned a lot about the cars. Of course, this was not PCA level competition but it was competitive.

A graduate of the PCA Concours College. Cool. Thanks for the post.

[deguitars]

I have judged a few car shows in my life (mostly British) where the emphasis was on correctness of the car, from an originality standpoint.

All I see in the PCA concours article is discussion of finding dirt in hidden places so my question is what does that have to do with anything? Does "concours" now refer to just how dust free the car is?

I don't believe even Pebble Beach judging detracts for dust and dirt these days, and I believe they even require each concours entrant to be driven on a road loop or it's disqualified.

I like a clean car but this wouldn't be my cup of tea...

[tirwin]

I think you will find a degree of variability in PCA regions. Peachstate judges the car "as presented" and not for correctness.

We also have a class for concours noobs.

To me, a concours can either be fun or it can be a real downer.

Next weekend my car will be at the Hilton Head Island Concours on Club Car Day. No judging. Just clean the car up and put it out to enjoy and hang out with a bunch of other car people. I like that.

Going for points? Who has the cleanest car... eh, not so much. That's just me.

Peachstate PCA hosted a mock judging this year. I think they were trying to drum up interest and get people to see what it's about. I took my car. I enjoyed talking to people and seeing other cool Porsches more than the judging.

But whatever floats your boat. Nothing wrong with it.

[GeorgeM]

It should be noted that there are differences in how each group is judged.

Preparation Group is all about cleanliness/condition and not about originality.

Preservation is all about originality and condition, and cleanliness is tertiary.

Restoration is about all that stuff for cars that have been restored.

I compete in Preservation with my '91 928GT and have found that this is the most gentlemanly group WRT judging. They don't touch the car, they don't search for dirt and dust under your pedals or gas cap, and they expect and encourage the car to be driven. In fact, only this year at Jay Peak did they rescind the "demerits for not driving to Parade" rule. Now, you just prove reasonable use and you're okay (I borrowed an enclosed trailer for the trip and was able to fully enjoy my Sunday before the Monday Concours not slaving over cleaning the car). Cleanliness is important, but more from a presentation perspective than anything else.

Which is more important between originality and condition varies from judge to judge, so addressing both is the key.

There are no points assigned, the "grades" are all subjective. This is the main reason Preservation Group results are not contestable, as the rules state that subjective results can't be contested.

Regardless of group, it really does come down to the fact that it's competitive. How well you do is all about what your competition is, and you really don't know that until you get there and see what's on the field.

Is it worth the effort? I think it is if you enjoy it and win every once in a while.

[RichardNew]

Each marque seems to do judging differently. Or, they fixate on different things.

The Corvette people are all about originality. Judges are told that they cannot deduct for normal road dirt. They become extremely obsessive about what constitutes origninal though. They have spent decades on documenting originality and can differentiate between factory spot welds and reproduction spot welds. Seriously.

Ferrari judging is similar to the Corvette judging. They're just not quite as obsessive.

It even varies within the various regions of the PCA. The one common element though seems to be some sort of OCD issue. Each group gets crazy over a different thing.



Richard Newton

[ROW911SC]

Ferrari concours judging stresses originality and preservation; nothing wrong with a little dirt or grass on the tires, or road rash for that matter...

[Jack Stands]

Years ago, a national pCA concours judge told me one of the first things she would do if judging interiors was to reach under the dash to see if the top of the radio was clean or dusty. That told her which were the serious participants from the amateurs. Concours is a scary sickness that can't be cured in some folks!

[Tippy]

I ask myself, what is the point of owning a concourse car?! You can't enjoy it. Same with most show cars. And this is coming from someone who's dad has turned our many show cars, some getting best of show from his resto shop.

[bkreigsr]

Originally Posted by RichardNew

Concours events have become extremely competitive. I decided to see just how crazy it can get. I recently attended a PCA Concours College.
Richard Newton

Richard - so your trading your string-backed, cone-carver gloves for white cotton?
Bill K

[porschenut]

Originally Posted by Tippy

I ask myself, what is the point of owning a concourse car?! You can't enjoy it. Same with most show cars. And this is coming from someone who's dad has turned our many show cars, some getting best of show from his resto shop.

Pride of ownership, mostly. For many, there's a lot more to enjoyment of a classic car than just driving it. Take me, for instance. I drive my 911 very little, typically about 1500 miles per year or so, and keep it spotless. This last summer I concours'd it for the first time. I spent more than 150 hours over the winter getting it ready, and yes I cleaned behind the pedals, completely removed the wiper assemblies and cleaned every nut, bolt, washer, plastic cap, that could be removed, as well as all bumpers and trim parts. I cleaned every inch under the dash, including the top of the radio. I vacuumed the underside of the floor mats and thoroughly cleaned the floor throughout the cabin. I burned through a box of 500 Q-tips and a few more, and even used toothpicks in certain places. Yeah, I wanted to win.

So I got second in the PCA regional concours. 230 points out of a possible 240. The first place car got 232.5 pts. Third place was way down from there. Was it worth it? When I held the ribbon in my hands I thought so, but it was a hell of a lot of work which I don't care to repeat, but probably will. With all that prep, I've only driven the car about 600 miles this year.

My car is a solid #2 condition car with 63k miles and completely original with no paint work except small rock chip touch-ups. And it's a rare special edition. Yeah, I don't drive it much but it gives me a tremendous amount of enjoyment just owning it. I completely understand those guys who prefer to drive the heck out of their cars, and I have done that with my previous cars, including plenty of track driving. Many times I wish I had a beater to modify and drive a lot. But this particular car is special, and I like keeping it that way. I think most concours junkies feel that way.

[speedster911]

I entered my first Local PCA concourse this year - spent over 40 Hrs cleaning my car. I think it was more the challenge to " catch" something before the judges rather than being OCD about my car. I got a great score, won my class but I know the judges were kind to me in their judging - I think trying to encourage me to continue entering and others to participate - I appreciated their guidance and felt it was a positive experience. Also was jazzed as to how clean my car was - just feel better driving a super clean car.

Question - someone mentioned removing a cap on a windshield wiper- I thought the rules were that a judge could not open anything. That would lead me to believe they could open the gas cap or oil cap as well to check inside. God help us if they start removing caps on tire stems and checking for dust there!!!

have a great weekend everyone

[tholyoak]

Surprised no one has brought up this quote yet.

"It makes me sad. Our cars were meant to be driven, not polished." -- Ferry Porsche

[RichardNew]

bkreigsr I have intention of getting involved in this. I just thought I should learn about it.

PCA is the most obsessive group with cleanliness. Originality is not an issue with PCA. A couple of years back they gave a Preservation award to a car where the entire front pan had been replaced. That would not happen at a Corvette or Ferrari gathering.

Corvette judges are not allowed to deduct for road dirt, oil leaks and grease on the zero fittings. Corvettes also lose points if the paint is too good. Anything better than what the factory did is a deduct.

PCA s actually getting better. At one time they had something called the Manhattan Award. This was the top award at the PCA parade. The only way to win this award was to buy a brand new Porsche and then take then entire car apart and improve on what the factory did. At least they dropped this award.

Richard Newton

[BE911SC]

Originally Posted by tholyoak

surprised no one has brought up this quote yet.

"It makes me sad. Our cars were meant to be driven, not polished." -- Ferry Porsche

This.

[BE911SC]

Originally Posted by RichardNew

Concours events have become extremely competitive. I decided to see just how crazy it can get. I recently attended a PCA Concours College.

Here's what I learned



Richard Newton

I can just imagine her trying to get out of there, awkwardly, and dragging that ball point across the seat!

[MARISOL78sc]

Not for me, I'm a driver to each there own.....

[NYNick]

Someone used the phrase 'concours junkie'. Entirely appropriate. I guess if it makes you happy and doesn't hurt anybody, it's fine.

I prefer to spend 'hundreds of hours' doing other things, like driving my 911.
Junkie indeed.