Things that make you go hmmmm...

[dr.porsche]

This is a long post, but I need advice and you guys are the best!As some of you know, I was to be the proud owner of a '72 911S Targa today. Well, it didn't happen and I want you all out there to reply and let me know what you think of this situation. I found this 911 through Hemmings. The car is in PA and I am in OH (GO BUCKS!!). The owner sent me pics and answered all of my questions promptly. I offered him $11k on his asking price of $14.5k. The ad read that the car had weak paint and interior, but ran strong and was rust free. My offer was countered to $11.5 but I had to take it without a PPI, however I would have the option of walking away after looking and driving the car. I went this Friday to look at the car and it was NOT as advertised. The top leaked like a sieve. The front windshield seals leaked and water was coming in through there also. On the passenger side, the water had been standing long enough for mold and mildew to form on the seat and under the carpet. There was a sopping wet rag left in the back seat....it was literally dripping wet when I picked it up. Also not mentioned, was a 9 inch by 6 inch dent near the driver's side mirror that had a 9 in perpendicular crease in it. This spot was devoid of paint, like it had completely flaked off and nothing was left except bare metal that was now covered with surface rust. The engine ran well, but the tach would bounce around after revving the motor (bad cable I think). The oil temp gauge was not represented as faulty, but when I got there I was told it was bad. The tranny seemed balky to me. I haven't driven that many 915 equipped cars, but it didn't feel right to me. The trans would grind in the 1-2 shift and when shifting into first from neutral after stopping. It sounded to me like a possible synchro. Also the 2-3 shift was horrible. When I shifted it into third, I had to use what I considered to be excess pressure on the stick to get it into gear, other wise it would jump out of gear. Shifting into any of the gears felt really sloppy, not tight, nor smooth, but very vague. I ended up walking away from the deal. What really irked me was how this guy really misrepresented the car's condition, then had the nerve to get personal with his attacks when it came time to leave. I had my four year old son with me and he wanted to know why the owner acted like that. When I told him he was mad at me, he said he (the owner) needed to grow up! How true. So, did I do the right thing by walking away, or am I wanting too much for too little? I guess I was caught a little of guard by so much being wrong that wasn't disclosed up front. Thanks in advance. Jeff

[47silver]

11k for a 72 should get you a pristine car. it is your money and i cannot understand why the guy would get upset with you. you were right to walk, the body will cost you 5+ to fix.

gary

[pwd72s]

Originally posted by 47silver
11k for a 72 should get you a pristine car. it is your money and i cannot understand why the guy would get upset with you. you were right to walk, the body will cost you 5+ to fix.

gary

Gary, you gottsta be kidding..11K for a pristine '72 911S? Find one for me at that price & I'll give you a WHOLE $100 finders fee....'Scuse me, but I'm LOL...I'm not saying a guy shouldn't walk in a case like this, he should. But even Sweet Old Bruce now admits that an "excellent" 1972 911S is worth a bit more than $11K...just a wee bit.

[Kevin Stewart]

Jeff i bought my Porsche 5 years ago today, i took a amtrack from Indiana to washington DC, 14hrs, then took the subway, i was met by a black sc in the parking lot with no owner i went and looked i thought this cant be it, guess what it was, the car was supposed to have no rust, new cd changer no craked dasch etc, you guessed it, cracked dash, cracked windshield, junk door panels, thre or 4 spots of rust the size of a quarter, no cd player, the seats were tore, you guessed it the guy lied through his teeth, then the first gear syncro was bad, so we reworked the deal and i bought a porsche, i did make it home, after further lies showed the heatexchangers were junk, and a ton of other problems, it was monday morning and i canceled the check, yes he took a check because the deal changed, i called him and told him to come and get this pos that he lied about, I ended up buying it cheap, but i should have just passed to start with, sounds like the car you looked at was even a bigger pos then my car was, at 11000 you can buy a nice car, and i bet the owner will let you get a ppi done, so blow it off and start looking for the right one, you made the right move, Kevin

[Eric Mckenna]

Jeff,
you did the right thing by walking .I am sure others willl agree. never settle for a turd.. get a good one that way you'll always be proud of your purchase.. and enjoy the work you do on it.
I am not saying that you have to buy a GREAT condition car to be happy.. hell I love to fix things back up myself kinda builds a bond for ya with the car. but .. if he lied.. well missread the condition of the car by that much.. he may be less than an honest persona nd .. not ht etype ya want to deal with .. the right car and right seller will come. Heck Dave C.. (Cornpanzer) in Centerville Ohio walked into a GREAT deal on his 70"S" he picked it up for like 8 or 9K and it is GREAT! not perfect but he loves to fix it up and is enjoying turning it into HIS "S" if ya know what I mean.. so rest well knowing you walked away for the right reasons. I'll keep my eyes open for ya in the Ohio area as wellif you tell me what yer looking for in a car and what year you're wanting.

Eric Mckenna
78SC

[curtisaa]

Originally posted by pwd72s
Gary, you gottsta be kidding..11K for a pristine '72 911S? Find one for me at that price & I'll give you a WHOLE $100 finders fee....'Scuse me, but I'm LOL...I'm not saying a guy shouldn't walk in a case like this, he should. But even Sweet Old Bruce now admits that an "excellent" 1972 911S is worth a bit more than $11K...just a wee bit.

Thanks Paul...you read my mind. I'm sure WE know what exactly a 72S Targa "should" sell for in todays market....

[Superman]

Walking away was a mistake. You should have run. In the $11k range, I'd suggest looking at SCs. Do not buy a butchered or neglected one. It's not worth it.

[Wayne 962]

While my opinion is that the early cars are overvalued right now, I'm certainly not going to argue that the prices are rising. The condition that you described is sortof what I see quite a lot here in SoCal (with less rust, I suppose). Given the rising values of these cars $11K may have been a fair price, but it would have required another $8K to bring it up to the level that you expected. You're probably not going to find the car that you're looking for, for less than $20K.

The question is why do you want an 'S'? Simply for the badge? Collectibility? I really think that you get more value from a T with a modified engine, than you do with an original 'S'. And if you have an original 'S', then you're handcuffed from doing anything cool to it, because you don't want to jeopardize it's "originality."

I personally would have more fun with a T car with a larger engine in it (like Jack's car!)...

-Wayne

[kcope]

My tranny was better than that and when my shop went to replace the syncros they found everything so worn it needed a rebuild. So add 2K to the price at least.

[cegerer]

"So, did I do the right thing by walking away, or am I wanting too much for too little?"

No, you didn't do the right thing. I would have sent the guy a bill for my travel expenses to drive all the way to look at that misrepresented piece of crap. -- Curt

[vesnyder]

Fistly, GO BUCKS! Secondly, Walk Away! Certainly no expert on early values, but in the process of fixing up a good condition '83, you can plan on another $8k easily. If it does not feel right walk away - you feel guilty for a couple days, but that is better than the pain this car would cause for years to come - financially and emotionally!

[stealthn]

You did the right thing! I took 2 & 1/2 years to find my SC looking at over 15 cars before I found mine. I looked all over North America, and it turned out I found one in my hometown.

During that time I saw alot of crap, and it would take me 30 seconds to see a car and say "thanks, but it's not what I was looking for so I don't want to waste your time". Never had a complaint though.

Sorry for your dilema (especially in front of your son), and I hope it doesn't happen again.

[Cornpanzer]

So many things I agree with (1) Go Bucks!!!! (2) Yes, you did right by walking away. (3) Wayne made a god point about an early "S". There are times that I feel a little limited by my "S" and its not that pristine of a car. Its in great shape but has been restored and modified a little in the past. I heard about a 73 T Targa here in Dayton that the owner is asking 5K for. I havent seen it but it sounds like an average car with MFI issues. Maybe a good opportunity to buy it for 5K and drop a late engine in? If you are interested I can find out more for you. Dave

[billwagnon]

When I was looking for a 911 long distance, my rule was to walk away from ANY bad vibes, glossing over by the owner or bad attitude. Ideally you find an owner who wants his baby to have a good home. Before I drove to NC I spent about 3 hours on the phone with the owner and DTW went above and beyond to go check out the car for me.

[speeder]

Well, a couple of ways to look at this. First of all, Thank God you didn't buy it, saddest thing in the world is a new poster who just bought a car like this and doesn't know that he could have bought a good one for less. (Figuring in first year repair bills).

Second point concerns general advice on sellers like this. Obviously, a lot of people lie on the phone to get you to come over and look. Why, I'll never know, since once you get there you are just going to be pissed. I have bought many cars and looked at many more, if it is a half mile away I will look at almost anything, but the further away it is the more specific my questions are to seller. Almost everyone shines up their car a little over the phone, factor that in, but if this guy blatantly lied to you, AND you drove a long way, you had every right to be mad at HIM! I would have put the 4yr. old in the car and told him exactly what I thought of his lack of character and upbringing. But that's just me.

Sorry to hear about that car, but glad you didn't buy it. And Wayne is right, an early "S" is not what you should be looking at in the $11k range, simply decent ones go for 2-3 times that amount, "found in a barn" stories not withstanding.

[Moses]

I would always pay a premium for a lovingly cared for car. You might pay a few thousand more up front, but save yourself countless headaches and a small fortune if you try to revive a neglected car.

[Wine Red 82 911]

It is possible to find a clean, low mileage, early Porsche in this state.(OHIO: NUMBER ONE BUCKEYES) Keep searching and dont settle for anything less.

[silverc4s]

dr. P,
First of all your name here seems a bit presumptious, am I missing something?
Wayne's comments re: early S cars are appropriate to your case. A complete, running, unmolested, unrusted, DRY, early S is now worth a minimum of $10 to 11K, as a restoration project.
When the car is leaking AND kept outdoors in a place like PA (as opposed to AZ, for example), then the owner has lost the right to expect a S premium, as he would if the engine were missing or not original, etc... Imagine seeing this same car in warm, dry garage, without all the dampness, water, and attendant destruction.....
You did the right thing, and you probably should redefine your search criteria. In the low teens, you should go to Pomona and hit the swap meet with Wayne as a guide. You could drive home in a gem of a T these days I believe; as well as get out of that snow for a while...

[GT911]

Bruce Anderson always preaches to buy the best car in your price range. For the same money an older SC in good condition is a better deal then a newer Carrera in poor condition.

That car was not a deal it was the core of a project car. For 11k you can find a good car that will be reliable as you do small projects and upgrades, and enjoy turning your son into a car guy.

Oh yes, and the most important thing GO BUCKS. Raised in Dayton, I have always been an OSU fan, and never have I been sooooo proud!

[turbo6bar]

Interesting thread, guys. I am searching for a 911 long distance. How long did it take some of you to find your 911(s), especially those who don't live in a Porsche haven? When you purchased your 911, did you get exactly what you wanted, or did you have to make a compromise?

Jurgen