Yet another Carrera no-start thread - Page 2

jlex · jlex's Garage

Are you sure the distributor is seated all the way into the case? I remember once working on my VW bug after I had the distributor out to overhaul it & had replaced the gasket which made for a tight fit.... the thing wasn't pushed into the case all the way so it was free-wheeling and not firing correctly. The position of that rotor kinda reminds me of that. Check to see if the distributor is well seated. With the cap off, it should turn correctly if it's seated.

scarceller · scarceller's Garage

This pic is from the manual, turn motor till that rotor lines up with mark on the dizzy housing. At that point the pully on the crank MUST be in the TDC 0deg postion.

If things don't line up like in the photo then your dizzy is not properly installed.

scarceller · scarceller's Garage

In your pic that's not Z1 mark on the pully, the Z1 mark has another mark 5 deg over from it, you will see 2 marks right next to each other on the pully when you put the dizzy as seen in the pic I sent above. Every pulley I've seen on 84-89 engines has a 'Z1' stamped on it at the Z1 mark and another 5deg mark right next to it. You should see 2 notches on the pulley, a Z1 and a 5deg.

Something like this picture:
http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/101_Projects_Porsche_911/23-Timing/images_small/pic3.JPG

jjeffries · jjeffries's Garage

You're in the best hands already, with Sal and Ingo guiding you, but I'll just add the importance of a very healthy and FULLY charged battery with a Motronic engine. And if it were me, I'd use new plugs knowing that the old ones got thoroughly gasoline soaked. Best of luck, John in CT.

rbarton · 12-29-2016, 11:49 AM

Sal, I believe the mark with the red arrow is 5 BTDC. My pic isn't the best, but there is a definite machined hash mark there similar to the one for TDC. As I rotate the crank pulley through a full 360 degrees, these are the only two marks close to each other.

rbarton · 12-29-2016, 11:52 AM

And again, I really appreciate the help guys. If it weren't for this forum I would have had to bite the bullet and have hauled the car off to the pros a long time ago. I'm learning a lot here.

scarceller · scarceller's Garage

My advice, spin motor till the rotor lines up with mark on dizzy then look at the pulley are you anywhere near any marks on the pulley? If not something is wrong, don't assume anything, even the pulley could be wrong?

To find TDC I made a custom 8" threaded pipe with same thread as a spark plug. I thread this pipe into the #1 spark plug and put a kids balloon on the end of this pipe. Turn motor till balloon inflates and just starts to deflate and your at exactly TDC for that given cyl.

rbarton · 12-29-2016, 12:41 PM

No timing marks are near the mark on the fan housing when I have the rotor in the correct position as shown in Sal's pic from the manual.

Point taken on verifying that the pulley is on correctly. Can I use a compression gauge on #1 to indicate when it is reaching TDC? Cool trick on the balloon but I'm not sure how to come up with a properly threaded piece of pipe...

ischmitz · ischmitz's Garage

Or simply watch the valves on cylinder 1 since the engine is out and w/o oil. You'll see when the intake closes and then it's on to the compression stroke.

scarceller · scarceller's Garage

OK, good chance that dizzy was not installed correctly if the marks are off.

Can you remove (unthread) the gauge from the compression test setup? If the gauge can be removed from the rubber whip you can then put a balloon on the end of the whip? Just a thought.
Or you can try just the gauge and see if the needle moves while you rotate crank by hand.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbarton

No timing marks are near the mark on the fan housing when I have the rotor in the correct position as shown in Sal's pic from the manual.

Point taken on verifying that the pulley is on correctly. Can I use a compression gauge on #1 to indicate when it is reaching TDC? Cool trick on the balloon but I'm not sure how to come up with a properly threaded piece of pipe...

jlex · jlex's Garage

The big no-no is putting something in the plug hole, like a pencil or dowel rod, then rotating the engine to see when the pencil it as it's height (TDC). Carelessness usually results in a broken pencil or scratched cylinder wall then it has to be fished out. I'm thinking that using a plastic straw would be pretty harmless. Trick is not to allow whatever is inserted into the cylinder to go sideways & get smashed by the piston. As long as you have two people: one to turn the engine (by hand, of course) and the other to hold the straw straight up in the plug hole, there should be no problem. I wouldn't try to do it alone as the straw will not stay at 90 degrees to the piston head while the engine turns.

scarceller · scarceller's Garage

The best way to find perfect TDC is with a TDC stop tool. This threads into the spark hole, it's a threaded rod that is rounded off smooth at the end so it won't mar the piston top. You thread the rod into the spark threads far enough in so that it will contact the piston just before TDC. You then turn the engine clockwise till it contacts and mark the pulley. Then spin motor 2 full turns in the opposite direction till it makes contact again and mark the pulley. Find the center point between the 2 marks and you have perfect TDC mark.

Experienced engine builders use this technique, you will often find that the marks on the stock pulley are not spot on. I've even seen this used on every cyl/piston and marks put on the pulley for each cyl. In the perfect build you will have 3 sets of marks on the pulley but you may find that the 2 paired cyls may actually be slightly off!

You could try to find a long bolt or threaded rod with that same thread pitch and easily create such a simple tool. Just be sure the end of the bolt/rod does not have any sharp edges.

This method risks very little if done correctly.