OT: New breed of sports car

[ljonespwc]

My buddy and I are always arguing about European versus Japanese sports cars. He loves the 911 line, but believes that the Japanese are starting to create high performance vehicles with an eye toward practicality--and that the public will love it. I wonder if that's a mix that will sell cars? Yesterday he sent me a link to a press release about the new Mazda RX-8, due out in about a year. It's definitely a sports car, with a naturally aspirated, 250HP rotary motor, but get this: it's got 4 doors (two are "suicide") and two rear bucket seats. Quite a unique design IMO. Here's a link to some other pics: http://images.rotarynews.com/images/RX-8Tokyo/

[Jack Olsen]

I'm sure it's a great driving car, but the design doesn't really have much personality to it. And the back seats seem like a neither/or solution. It's still not really useable for four passengers, and it's got to compromise chassis stiffness -- and it wastes space. I guess you can use the seats in a pinch, like a 911's, but most of the time you're going to have one or two people in the car. Why drive a performance car with that much empty space?

------------------
Jack Olsen
My Rennlist page • My Pelican Gallery page • My Porsche Owners Gallery page

[KTL]

Originally posted by JackOlsen:
it's got to compromise chassis stiffness -- and it wastes space.

Probably still much more torsional rigidity than most cabrio "sports cars", no?

Why drive a performance car with that much empty space?


BMW uses the wasted space idea in the M Coupe, Z3 Coupe bread truck design. Pretty cool car and has some space to put something in a pinch. Also makes it a bit easier to haul gear to the track. 944 guys can identify with that benefit.

Just pointing out some of the benefits of a little extra space. Adds weight of course, but not everybody has the opportunity to use their performer as a dedicated hot-lapper. Sometimes one's car needs to have a little practicality (unfortunately).


------------------
Kevin
87 Carrera coupe

[This message has been edited by KTL (edited 10-19-2001).]

[mjc76]

They actually had this car at the ALMS races held at (Mazda) Laguna Seca Raceway. It was actually a pretty good looking car as far as Japanese sports cars go.

[David McLaughlin]

To save on space, provide better balance and rigidity, you could just put the motor in the middle and use the trunks at both ends. Just my opinion... who needs micro back seats anyway?

Dave
1970 914/6 (con)

[cegerer]

One of the important elements in a successful sports car (assuming that performance is a GIVEN!) is tradition and racing heritage - Porsche, Ferrari, BMW, Jaguar, etc. have all got it in spades. Japanese cars, well .... don't. They've made some good cars over the years (the last generation RX-7 comes to mind), but they all seem to last only a few years. Then it's on to whatever the latest fad is: minivans, SUV's, pickups, psuedo-Mercedes luxury sedans, etc. There's never any continuity! It tough for me to get excited about this type of car, knowing that 3 years from now it will most likely be out-of-production and Mazda will be back to cranking out mini-vans or something.

------------------
1971 911T - 2.5L Big Bore

[ljonespwc]

Cegerer, you make some valid points--the same ones that I made to my friend. However, one has to recognize that Mazda actually won the 24-hours at LeMans with their rotary-powered racecar in 1991. Quite an accomplishment, really. Given, it's not a racing "heritage", but the technology is proven.

The 3rd generation RX-7 left North America after 1995, due primarily to dismal sales. Nissan and Toyota also dropped their sport cars for similar reasons. Now they're back--well, Mazda and Nissan, anyway. They do seem to react to transportation trends, but they're in business to make a profit. Sounds like I'm arguing with myself now. Porsche has maintained incredible consistency and sustainability with their 911 line, but Porsche's other models seem to have much shorter lifespans. Remember that the RX-7 was introduced in 1978 and ran through 1995--that's 17 production years with only 2 major facelifts. Not bad. I like the rotary motor, and I'm glad the RX is returning. Lance.

[nostatic]

Maybe these aren't "sports cars", but what about WRC? Subaru and Mitsubishi have been very successful cranking out fast, tough rally cars.

[rscupper]

Hey Dave - others have tried to put engines in the middle but it never really worked. Oh well. And who really needs two trunks, anyway?

[rscupper]

As for the RX8 - not...bad.
Design-wise: I think it would do well with flares all around. Think track-bound BMW 3-series with a 8 cylinders. Appears a little too tall at the doors for a good cabrio look, but that done, would look something like a Prowler?
Performance-wise: Where are the specs?