1983 Ignition Key info needed

[mhackney]

Back story: my '83 911 SC Cabriolet came with one aftermarket key. After 8 years I finally got off my rear and had some spares cut. My local locksmith had aftermarket Ilco blanks - P06. This blank looks identical to the aftermarket key that came with my car. They cut 3 keys and all 3 work perfectly. However, I have no idea if my "original" key is a second, third, or 10th generation! I discovered that Porsche NA can cut keys from the VIN for these cars and I thought it worth the extra expense to get a 1st generation master "just in case".

I went to pick up the key today and, of course, it is nothing like the keys I have that work. First, the actual key profile is significantly different but even more problematic is that the blank is quite a bit different. I left the key at the dealer and he is going to talk to the key guy at P-NA on Monday.

Here's a photo of one of the new aftermarket keys that works fine.

Ive annotated it to point out what's different from the Porsche blank. The end-on drawing in red at the lower right is for the working key. The one in green is the key Porsche cut from my VIN. Note the difference. So my question is, what gives? What's right and more importantly, is there anything I can do or should I just be glad that I got spares made!

[boyt911sc]

Michael,

I have four sets of Porsche keys (OEM) and they all have the green profile. However, I had the '77S key duplicated by a local locksmith and has the red profile. Now to add more to the confusion, I have two (2) Porsche blank keys (red and black). The red key has the 'red profile' and the black key has the 'green profile'. These are Porsche (factory) spare keys obtained from the dealer. I've never paid attention to the details of these keys as long as they work.

Tony

[mhackney]

Thanks Tony. So perhaps the green profile is the master key and the red is the valet key profile. I thought the difference between master and valet was the longitudinal grooves were different.

[boyt911sc]

Originally Posted by mhackney

Thanks Tony. So perhaps the green profile is the master key and the red is the valet key profile. I thought the difference between master and valet was the longitudinal grooves were different.

Michael,

The valet keys could not be used to open the glove compartment. Just for the door and ignition switch. Not sure if this is also applicable to older models 911 (?). Do you have a valet key?

Tony

[75 911s]

How much is it for a Porsche key off the VIN?

My black OEM key opens my glove box, and doors, but doesn't turn the ignition, my Ilco key (red keys missing) runs the ignition... Does this mean my ignition has been changed?

[gazzerr]

I'm pretty sure the "red" key is the valet key.

[tirwin]

I have a 'first gen' key. Had a bad ignition switch when I bought my car. I bought a new assembly and had all the other tumblers matched to the new ignition key. The new key looks like your green key. The one thing I don't have is a red valet key.

[mhackney]

Tony, I only have 1 key and it looks like the photo I posted (only a bit older). I do not have an original key.

The key blank is a standard numbering system (at least the aftermarkets are). The blank my original key and the new keys used is a P06. I don't know enough about keys to know if this is the normal key or valet key blank. Since my car is a cab, I don't lock the doors and I've actually never tried the key in it.

@75 911s - I'd wager that each Porsche dealer does their own markup but in my case, the blank cut from VIN was $87. This is the blank that fits into the lighted head so you'll need one of those too.

[Joe Bob]

Why not buy a lighted keyhead(s) and cut it at a local key shop to your key that works. Those are fuglee.

[mhackney]

See my first post. I certainly could do that BUT I have a copied key and I do not know if it is a 2nd generation or a 10th generation. So I thought it would be a good thing to get a master cut from the VIN. The duplicate key in the photo above was my quick and dirty copies - three of them and they all work perfectly. At least now if I lose a key, I am not screwed. But I'd like to have a good master preferably cut from the VIN. My first attempt at that failed. We'll see what PNA comes back with on Monday. If that doesn't work I'll get a less fuglee key made from one of my copies!

[aoncurly]

You should be able to have a skeleton (Black) key and valet (Red) key cut from your key. The profile is the same for each key, and as you have found, the grooves are the only difference for the Black and Red keys. The number of key cut generations does not really matter as long as they work.

My local Porsche dealer said they would charge $147 to cut a new key from my key card if they could do it at all. This particular dealer wasn't sure they could.

Your valet key should only work on the door and ignition and not the glovebox or the frunk lock.

I would suggest buying Porsche key blanks (Red and Black) and also a lighted head from our host as Joe Bob suggests, and having the keys cut from your copy by the same locksmith who cut the keys that work. Finding an old-school locksmith who can cut Porsche keys successfully is harder than it seems.

See New Key

[mhackney]

Thanks aoncurly - I was concerned that minor changes from key cut generations might be a problem. I now have a lighted head so once I hear back from the dealer - which I'm sure will be "that's the profile on record" and won't work in my car - I'll get the blanks and get some good keys made. I'e already talked to DasKeyMan (Tony) when I only had one key. Now that I have several, I'll just send one of the cuts to him and have everything made at once. I am not confident that the local locksmith can cut non-brass keys. The copies I have are the typical chrome plated brass.

[tweet]

Originally Posted by mhackney

Back story: my '83 911 SC Cabriolet came with one aftermarket key. After 8 years I finally got off my rear and had some spares cut. My local locksmith had aftermarket Ilco blanks - P06. This blank looks identical to the aftermarket key that came with my car. They cut 3 keys and all 3 work perfectly. However, I have no idea if my "original" key is a second, third, or 10th generation! I discovered that Porsche NA can cut keys from the VIN for these cars and I thought it worth the extra expense to get a 1st generation master "just in case".

I went to pick up the key today and, of course, it is nothing like the keys I have that work. First, the actual key profile is significantly different but even more problematic is that the blank is quite a bit different. I left the key at the dealer and he is going to talk to the key guy at P-NA on Monday.

Here's a photo of one of the new aftermarket keys that works fine.

Ive annotated it to point out what's different from the Porsche blank. The end-on drawing in red at the lower right is for the working key. The one in green is the key Porsche cut from my VIN. Note the difference. So my question is, what gives? What's right and more importantly, is there anything I can do or should I just be glad that I got spares made!

Hello,
"What gives" is that the key you have in your hand is a PO6 - valet (red).
A master is a PO5 (black). The master is for all the locks on your car. The valet is only for the ignition and doors. A PO6 (valet) should only operate the ignition and the doors, nothing else. If you have PO6 keys (valet) and they work on other than doors or ignition, there is something afoot. The keys look different because they are different, but they are both correct for your car.

Regards,
Dan

[Kraftwerk]

I have noticed some of the Taylor and Ilco -'off' brand oem keys measure thinner than their factory counterparts. If you use a caliper on the flat metal stock you can get a reading on it ~ there is a difference. That causes differences as well in the 'performance' of the key.
Keep you original key, the one that came with the car, in a safe box only take it out when you are making copies of your key and use high quality blanks. Make sure the key -cutter 'stamps; your key with their logo so if its cut wrong you can take it back and have anew one cut. (In this case you tend to eat the cost on the blank if you brought your own blanks, alas.) So you want to use a locksmith who knows what they are doing.

[GH85Carrera]

The master key will also lock the trunk.

I have had a black OEM style Porsche key in my pocket since 1974. I used to lock the turn on my 914 a lot more than the 911 since I often left the roof off on the 914. On vacations I do lock the turn if there is anything in there like my wife's purse. I have one of the aftermarket black keys and a factory red key.

[tweet]

Originally Posted by Kraftwerk

I have noticed some of the Taylor and Ilco -'off' brand oem keys measure thinner than their factory counterparts. If you use a caliper on the flat metal stock you can get a reading on it ~ there is a difference. That causes differences as well in the 'performance' of the key.
Keep you original key, the one that came with the car, in a safe box only take it out when you are making copies of your key and use high quality blanks. Make sure the key -cutter 'stamps; your key with their logo so if its cut wrong you can take it back and have anew one cut. (In this case you tend to eat the cost on the blank if you brought your own blanks, alas.) So you want to use a locksmith who knows what they are doing.

Yes, that is correct. Different key manufacturers have different tolerances on the their blanks. This is why when someone is careless or inexperienced makes a key or duplicates it, they will mess it up; including your expensive oem Porsche key blanks.

[wrxnofx]

Buy the blanks from our host and take that crap key and the blanks to your local hardware store. That's what I did. Guy at the hardware store told me he'd never done these before and it wasn't his fault if they broke or didn't work (he was amazed at how skinny the key was). Charged me $8 to cut 3. They all work great.

[schoward]

Originally Posted by wrxnofx

Buy the blanks from our host and take that crap key and the blanks to your local hardware store. That's what I did. Guy at the hardware store told me he'd never done these before and it wasn't his fault if they broke or didn't work (he was amazed at how skinny the key was). Charged me $8 to cut 3. They all work great.

^^^ This.

Don't let any PITA locksmiths give you a hard time. I listened to one expert locksmith bellyache on how he couldn't do it, then he finally did and charged me $8 for one using a Porsche blank I supplied. Works fine.

The next time, I tried the old guy at the hardware store a half mile from my house - Took in my porsche blank, he cut it using the one above in 2 mins. and said - 'well, you brought the blank, I'm not going to charge you for the cut...' Free and working fine for 10 years and counting...

[Bill Douglas]

Mine was a copy of a copy of a copy; so I got Porsche to do a key cut off the computer records relating to the VIN. It works well and has been used by me for the last, umm, 15 years I guess.

Much better to have a correct key than a dodgy one wearing out the ignition lock

[aoncurly]

In my experience, buy blanks here, but have them cut by a good, old school locksmith, preferably one who has worked on Porsche keys before. Took my blank to a local hardware store and the copy didn't work. After looking around, I finally found a good locksmith. I took a new blank there, had it cut and it worked fine. Finding a good, knowledgeable locksmith is a lot harder than you'd think these days.