Best 3.2 headers with heat?

[LJ851]

I am putting an '86 3.2 engine in my SC. The 3.2 is all stock internally but has 46mm PMO carbs for induction. In the future more compression, more spark plugs, and cams might be added. It is primarily a street car but i drive spiritedly.

What is best performing option for me?

I currently have SSIs and OE 993 heat exchangers for headers, a 2 in 1 out Monty muffler and 2 in 2 out M&k muffler. Modifying parts to use 993 H/Es is not a concern and i am not against getting something else entirely and selling what i have.

Thanks!

[rattlsnak]

do you not want to use the SSI's? other than going with a full setup from B&B or find a set of used GHLs?

[Elombard]

gawd you should come over see what I am going through getting my old ones off and putting the B&B on. Ton of work. Although I am enjoying it.

I like the 993 headers idea, I think they are the non "gillette" brand? You will have to flip the flanges which sounds like some work.

I just really like how the guys with 993 headers can get the exhaust muffler tucked up really nice and they apparently have good flow and they are a dual set up.

[LJ851]

I guess my post wasn't very clear, sorry. My 3.2 engine is on the stand right now and i have removed the original "86 exhaust (without breaking a stud) and all the headers/mufflers i mentioned i have ended up with for various reasons. Yes, the 993 H/Es need the flanges flipped on one side and custom piping to the mufflers i have but i can do that.

My main question is what is the best option for 3.2 headers with heat.

[RarlyL8]

SSI is too small for a 3.2L, even more so if modified.
We have an option to use with the M&K 2/2 or the 993 Bishoffs:

[James Brown]

Originally Posted by RarlyL8

SSI is too small for a 3.2L, even more so if modified.
We have an option to use with the M&K 2/2 or the 993 Bishoffs:

so you found someone to make the heat boxes, bravo! on my wish list

[RarlyL8]

We ended up making them in house. Not as cost affective but we can control quality and lead times this way.

[James Brown]

fantastic, that's the cat's ass

[Elombard]

Yes those are beautiful Brian.

[Quicksilver]

You used the word "Best"!

I don't think that "Best" for a 3.2 has been made yet. "Best" would have 1-5/8" equal length primaries that are at least 24" long. They would be quality stainless and have a choice of mufflers. They wouldn't require cutting tin to install and they wouldn't require changes to the S-hose from the tank to the engine.
And they wouldn't cost an arm and a leg...

I would like to see someone make something with the primaries run like SSIs so the collector flange is farther forward so you could easily fit CATs. They would need to be 1-5/8".
Right now the choice available that has longer primaries are the B&Bs (which I have on my car) but I wouldn't say they are a great choice. The tubes are the right size but the routing is silly and the oil return s-hose runs into the headers. The B&B solution is a tube with a small sink-trap in it (stupid!)(my solution is much simpler). There isn't much of a selection of mufflers so the choice is "Loud", "Real Loud", or build your own. You have to cut the tin on the driver's side to get them to fit. From the factory the B&Bs are too expensive (for my wallet at least) but they are common enough that you can find them used for a reasonably price if you are patient.


I think it is really surprising that for a car that has been around for as long as the 3.2 Carrera and that has as much enthusiast money thrown at it, that there isn't something available that fits all the bullet points.
If you aren't into making the B&Bs work then my suggestion is to live with the non-optimal primary lengths of the 993 Bishoffs and enjoy the muffler options and the option of putting CATs in.
The higher end (and higher quality) choice in this range is the RarlyL8 headers. They are a work of art and you can use the wonderful MK mufflers with them. (I just don't like the short primaries...)

[PcarPhil]

Originally Posted by RarlyL8

We have an option to use with the M&K 2/2 or the 993 Bishoffs:

Are your 993 mufflers ready to install when purchased, or does the buyer have to do the final welding?

If they are ready to install do you have a 993 Bischoff HE muffler with GT3 style center outlets?

[Quicksilver]

BTW - When you put the headers on you will need to change the oil lines. I HIGHLY recommend you put in the Elephant Universal Crossover Pipe. That way the exhaust can be switched between stock and headers without changing the oil lines.

[RWebb]

You used the word "Best"!

I don't think that "Best" for a 3.2 has been demonstrated yet either. I have never seen engine dyno runs for anything, much less runs for various cams/intakes.

[911dean]

Originally Posted by RWebb

You used the word "Best"!

I don't think that "Best" for a 3.2 has been demonstrated yet either. I have never seen engine dyno runs for anything, much less runs for various cams/intakes.

I'd like to see dyno runs myself. The RarlyL8s look really nice though. I assume they are beter than the SSIs and I like the stock muffler spacing.


Dean

[Iciclehead]

Interested in the discussion and trying to learn...but I hear frequently that SSI's are too small, that their 1.5" primaries just aren't big enough for anything over 3 litres.

When I put SSI's on my short stroke 3.2, it made a very noticeable difference, which isn't surprising since they are better tuned than the original system and I guess I wasn't surprised at all as the ports are only 35 mm on that engine (a 930/03 Euro) and that is only 1 3/8 inch....smaller than the pipes on the SSI's.

So, what is the relationship between port size and exhaust size? I would presume that any exhaust pipe that is bigger than the port would be fine, given that the tuning of the pipes is proper. I would also think that very much larger pipes would just allow the exhaust gas pulses to expand into the volume, slow them down and reduce the extractive effect of the tuned length headers.

My interest is more than academic as I am building a 3.4 litre engine on the same model of heads (930/03 "Big Port"), will use EFI and PMO intakes and need heat....ergo...SSI's. I am hoping for a nice, mid-range torque, reasonable horsepower engine as opposed to trying to grab the last few hp north of 6500 rpm....

I look to the empirical experience of others as a learning experience for me..

Dennis

[LJ851]

Originally Posted by 911dean

I'd like to see dyno runs myself.

Dean

Yes. I bet Steve Wong knows a thing or two regarding this subject.

[RarlyL8]

Headers cannot be made one size fits all. My 1 5/8" headers were designed for modified 3.0-3.2L engines and stock 3.6L engines. The primaries are 21" long which falls in the range for higher RPM higher output engines. I understand price is very important but refuse to outsource to Asia or use lesser alloys of stainless. The outlet spacing is OEM so you have many muffler options beyond our M&K line. We realize folks need options and the best for your application and pocketbook may fall outside our muffler selection.

[obrut]

Another option is the turbo Thomas setup in the uk. 42mm primaries, merge collectors, standard muffler spacing, optional heat

Two friends of mine use them and are very impressed.

[Elombard]

IG Exhaust Systems for 911

Have you checked out the Instant G site? Not cheap but some different options and ideas.

[Pierre911SC]

Brian,

Are theses heat boxes for 1 5/8" headers available now ?