Kevin - 993 exhaust 2 964

pbs911 · pbs911's Garage

Kevin asked but I am sure others may contemplating using the 993 exhaust on their 964 motor. Here are a couple pics of how the 993 exhaust will move the exhaust from the motor to the muffler, good for an increase in most of the 27HP gained by the facotry in the transition from the 964 to the 993 motors.
The passanger side was wiped down and looks pretty. The drivers' side has 2 of the 3 adapters in place that are needed to bolt directly to the 964 exhaust studs. I left the third off to show how the bolt pattern must be changed.
The second pic is a close up of the adapter.
The 3rd pic is of the flange that will be used to fab the connecting pipe from the header to the muffler. The design and parts are courtesy of Harald.

Jack Olsen · 01-27-2003, 08:16 PM

I'm no exhaust expert, but that seems like a pretty clever fix.

john_colasante · 01-27-2003, 08:19 PM

The 993 head has provisions for having the studs in any of the four corners, which would eliminate the need for an adapter. I guess the 964 doesn't have this? See photo.

eion · 01-27-2003, 08:23 PM

Wow, looks nice - it'd be really interesting to see how something like that stacks up performance-wise against the big-$$$ systems you get for the 964...

Jack Olsen · 08:27 PM

Eion, it stacks up very well. Steve Weiner at Rennsport Sysytems has been doing it for a while, I believe.

And John, that's correct about the 964 not having the extra holes. Usually the fix is to cut the pipes on the headers and reweld the flanges. There are shops that have made jigs for this, although the poor man's solution is to cut, then bolt one set to the other, and then weld.

surflvr911sc · surflvr911sc's Garage

Has anyone actually used this adapted yet? Do you remove the exhaust studs and use counter sunk machine screws to attach the adapter to the head? If not, is there enough clearance for the nuts to bolt the adapter to the head?

Don’t think I’m actually considering this conversion. I would never want something like that in my car.

Kevin Stewart · 01-27-2003, 09:14 PM

Thanks for the pictures Paul, hopefully by the weekend ill have my motor assembled and ready to go in, I was considering coating some parts but decided this car will be a daily driver once again, Just clean and stock will have to do, Kevin

slammed1000 · 01-27-2003, 10:24 PM

just like the 3 liter huh kevin! spent 8 hours of degreasing time on just the motor saturday and another 3 hours tonight cleaning the other stuff up to get powder coated...

Kevin Stewart · 01-27-2003, 10:36 PM

Brent, you know where i live, dont talk **** here bring it to my face, But i will tell the car was being serviced by a shop for the last couple years because of my time problems, the car did have a loose oil line that caused oil on the heat exchanger, the motor was perfectly clean when i pulled and seviced the motor 5 years ago when i got the car, and by the way it was oily then, the company that was servicing the motor was not pulling the motor to service it, but were supposed to be cleaning it, do to my 15 hour days i was hardly driving thecar leave alone looking under it. you are right im not sending parts out to get coated to watch it sit in a garage, the way the motor is was good enough for porsche and its good enough for me. So I think you should worry about you and yours, Kevin

Bill Verburg · Bill Verburg's Garage

So does that flange replace the existing one? or does the passenger side exchanger sit .25"( or whatever the thickness of the flange is ) lower?

John, Did you see JR's response, he described a single round hole in the cam tower as in your pic. Have you tried putting some compressed air into it and seeing if it blows out and if so, where?

surflvr911sc · surflvr911sc's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by surflvr911sc
Has anyone actually used this adapted yet? Do you remove the exhaust studs and use counter sunk machine screws to attach the adapter to the head? If not, is there enough clearance for the nuts to bolt the adapter to the head?

I am still looking for an answer on this. Maybe no one really has used them yet. It looks to me like you would have to use counter sunk machine screws to mount the adapter to the head. It just doesn't look like there is enough room for the nut and the adapters were counter sunk so I guess it's kind of obvious. Would like someone w/ experience to confirm this though.

Looking at Paul's adapters, the exchanger would have to sit lower, looks a little more than 1/4”, 3/8” is my guess so that’d be 1cm.

Speedster94 · 01-28-2003, 02:46 PM

hallo
I used them on a few 964 , to convert to 993 Systems . You can cut and reweld but than you cannot reach trough the Holes in the HE to tighten it . there are special Inbus Bolts that mount the Adapters to the Heads
and the will be flat with the Surface . The HE is 5mm lower but you can adjust that easy with the Muffler .
I think it is a nice alternative to aftermarket headers for a 10th of the Cost . To Ryan : And you would never put a 3.6 in the 81 SC , it just doesnt look right ? I understand .
harald

surflvr911sc · surflvr911sc's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by Speedster94
To Ryan : And you would never put a 3.6 in the 81 SC , it just doesnt look right ? I understand .
harald

I'm glad you understand Harald. Going w/ Paul to pick up the engine you sent him didn't get me excited at all.

BTW, I will be in Germany in a couple weeks. What are the chances of me coming by and talking to you for a while? How close to Dudeldorf are you? I will be at Spangdahlem.

Speedster94 · 01-28-2003, 03:23 PM

hallo Ryan
i am 30 minutes from Düsseldorf , Spangdahlem is much more South ,
near Ramstein , isnt it ? Stop by if you want .
harald

pbs911 · pbs911's Garage

Quote:

there are special Inbus Bolts that mount the Adapters to the Heads.

Harald, what's an Inbus bolt? Are they in the little bag of nuts and bolts?

surflvr911sc · surflvr911sc's Garage

Thanks Harald, I'll email you. Spangdahlem is not far from Düsseldorf. How far I don't remember but I thought is was about 10-15 minutes.

Aren't the 964 exhaust studs 8mx1.25? Paul, if you don't have them they should be easy to find. They should look like a counter sunk machine screw. I'm not sure what "Inbus" is but I assume that it has to do w/ the head. I would expect that the head would take an allen wrench (6mm?) as opposed to a crosspoint or common.

surflvr911sc · surflvr911sc's Garage

Harald, can you tell me why there are two copper rings on the 993 exhaust adapter? I know one is a sealing and the other looks like a backing ring for it. Is there a reason you used two rings instead of making a shallower cut and use the sealing ring alone?

Speedster94 · 01-29-2003, 02:32 PM

the original Cut is the same and uses the Porsche seal at 15$ a ring , i used the Original sealing first and than change to Copper ( 50c ) . They are not available in that size so the other Ring is a Spacer , The Hollow one goes to the Headerside the other one in the Cut first. I have the Adapters made by 50 Pieces ,the next ones will have a shallower cut .
The Car i used the Copper rings in has now 4000 Miles done without a Problem , so i think the Copper ring works .
Paul: Inbus are the Stainless bolts with the IN six Head , i think you call it Allen Head .
Harald