83 SC: Sunroof stuck at guide rails on passenger side

[83_Silberpfeil]

My 83 SC sunroof is stuck. Need to access the guide rails, but the roof will not open even manually, and I am unable to remove the roof panel.

I cannot see what it is, but seems to be something clogging the guide rails on the passenger side.

As, I attempt to open --- both via motor/switch), and also manually vial the special tool/crank --- the roof opens may be 1/4 inch, then you can see that:

- the passenger side of roof stops moving
- driver side keeps moving for another 1/8 inch
- the roof panel becomes misaligned
- the driver side begins to lower, as it should into the roof
- the passenger side remains stuck

So, then I try up front to remove the liner attached to the sunroof piece, but unable to grab/hold the front edge because roof is closed. I've disengaged the motor/clutch from the cables and tried to push the roof back, but it does not move

How to proceed?

Thanks!

[proporsche]

Hi if you have the headliner off ..now you have to remove the gears so the sunroof is no longer attached to them..front is 8mm socket on the rails and the rear is 7mm socket.Then gently remove the sunroof from the car.Just be gentle so you do not scratch the roof...
Ivan

[83_Silberpfeil]

Thanks!!! Esp the 7 & 8 mm sockets.

I followed this thread and was able to remove the roof. Sunroof cable repair and new seals 87 911

Originally Posted by proporsche

Hi if you have the headliner off ..now you have to remove the gears so the sunroof is no longer attached to them..front is 8mm socket on the rails and the rear is 7mm socket.Then gently remove the sunroof from the car.Just be gentle so you do not scratch the roof...
Ivan

[83_Silberpfeil]

Now I have the roof panel completely removed/off.

Here's what I see:

Passenger side, the cable is slotted/fit into the "outside" of the guide rail.
Driver's side, the cable is slotted/fit into the "inside" of the guide rail channel.

Does this seem correct?

I am able to see that that on the Passenger side, the cable is no longer attached to the "cable holder". Kind of like the first pic of post #2 on this thread...

Sunroof cable repair and new seals 87 911

What should next step be?

[proporsche]

Hi..most likely next step is to remove the cables..probably broken...and inspect..picture would help
Ivan

[83_Silberpfeil]

Thanks again for continued interest/support.

I took the cable holder out of the guide rails. See how the cable rides on the "outside edge, on the passenger side? And on the driver's side, cable rides on the inside edge? Is this how it is supposed to be?

How do I remove the cable? use pliers and just pull it out?

Originally Posted by proporsche

Hi..most likely next step is to remove the cables..probably broken...and inspect..picture would help
Ivan

[83_Silberpfeil]

Here are some pix...

Originally Posted by 83_Silberpfeil

Thanks again for continued interest/support.

I took the cable holder out of the guide rails. See how the cable rides on the "outside edge, on the passenger side? And on the driver's side, cable rides on the inside edge? Is this how it is supposed to be?

How do I remove the cable? use pliers and just pull it out?

[proporsche]

Hi ,this is the solution to your riddle..
You have to remove the sunroof rails piece by piece..the rest of the cable will come with the rail.
There is plenty of help on this forum as you just looked at the another one.
It is not really hard to do .The only thing is be careful once you get the new cables in and start to insert the sunroof it self , you do not scratch it..
good luck

Ivan

[83_Silberpfeil]

More pics here...

You can see that the cable attaches on the 'outside' of the cable holder. Cable rides on the 'outside edge' of guard rail...

Originally Posted by proporsche

Hi..most likely next step is to remove the cables..probably broken...and inspect..picture would help
Ivan

[proporsche]

This is something..it was actually working?Are you really saying the cable was ridding on the top of the rails?
The cable must be inside the rails in order to properly work...

[83_Silberpfeil]

Of course the cable was inside the rail 'track'.

Because cable broke from cahle holder, I had to use plier to pull cable out separately from guide rail.

Originally Posted by proporsche

This is something..it was actually working?Are you really saying the cable was ridding on the top of the rails?
The cable must be inside the rails in order to properly work...

[proporsche]

ok misunderstood...in this case it is no brainer. Get yourself new cables and reinstall..
If i remember correctly you have to modify the sliding ends to fit your rail.Maybe they do the cables different now i do not know ...but that was the case last time i did the cables in LA.

Ivan

[83_Silberpfeil]

thanks! will do!

Originally Posted by proporsche

ok misunderstood...in this case it is no brainer. Get yourself new cables and reinstall..
If i remember correctly you have to modify the sliding ends to fit your rail.Maybe they do the cables different now i do not know ...but that was the case last time i did the cables in LA.

Ivan

[83_Silberpfeil]

Going to go on the cheap and try to salvage and refurb/reuse the existing cable and slider. Followed jhubs' ide here on his post #2 below. Used some Goof Off to clean the cable tip and the slider. Then applied a bit of JB Weld Steel Stik to the tip of the cable. Surprised to learn it was like 'putty'. Tried my best and inserted cable into the slider crimp tube.

Sunroof cable repair and new seals 87 911

See my fotos below. The 'crud' on the cable at the slider is the JB Weld putty.

[Hendog]

Yep, I did this same repair last year. I cleaned up the cable end and inserted it with JB Weld and also "crimped" it (applied squeeze pressure with some device). Then I filed it with a hand file to make it smooth so it wouldn't bind/catch anywhere. It's been good since.

[83_Silberpfeil]

Thanks Hendog. Good tip --- I will crimp and file.

[83_Silberpfeil]

@Hendog --- crimping seems to work well, giving it an extra hold. Thanks for the tip.

Made some progress today. Let me share what I did, and what I learned.

Worked on cable tracks further today under daylight. Was able to see that there was much more gunk (grease, dirt, foliage, etc) inside the tracks. Used Goof Off to further clean the tracks. Turned out that the gunk stopped the passenger side cable holder from traveling back (to open) along the track).

I would be inclined to believe that the cable/track system should run w/o grease, as lots of dirt can gum up the operation.

Since I was at it, I also removed the driver's side cable/track --- gave it a good cleaning w Goof Off. Just as dirty as the passenger side --- but did not have issues riding up/down the track.

So, for anyone w a sunroof coupe, where the sunroof is not operating a smoothly (based on visual and audio cues) I highly recommend removing and giving it a good cleaning.

[83_Silberpfeil]

The parts arrived from our Host. Very fast fulfillment --- Thanks Wayne --- your crew is doing an amazing job!

So, this is what I bought:

901-564-905-05-M100 rubber strip for rear of sunroof panel "panel"
911-564-191-00-M127 velvet strip, long one, for front --- I think this one is meant to go on the front of sunroof frame/opening
911-564-193-00-INT velvet strip, short one, for the back of the sunroof panel.

Now, when I removed the panel, this is what I saw:

1) no rubber strip was installed, but the panel did show that the strip was installed previously.Any chance that the strip is stuck inside the car frame?

2) front of sunroof frame/opening already has the long velvet strip --- in fairly good shape still

3) sunroof panel --- front had a velvet strip installed, but was falling apart, rubber inside the strip was falling out. I removed it from the roof panel and tossed it.

4) sunroof panel --- rear had velvet strip (short piece) installed, falling apart also.

Q: I've read that the roof panel front does not or should not need a velvet strip --- is this true? Would it hurt if I installed one anyway?


BTW, just for kicks, check out this delivery path via USPS Priority Mail. You wonder why the USPS is operating under loss/deficit each year --- and yours truly and all yourselves are helping to fund this deficit via our tax dollars....

https://tools.usps.com/go/TrackConfirmAction_input?qtc_tLabels1=940551020079 3355144739

Originally Posted by 83_Silberpfeil

@Hendog --- crimping seems to work well, giving it an extra hold. Thanks for the tip.

Made some progress today. Let me share what I did, and what I learned.

Worked on cable tracks further today under daylight. Was able to see that there was much more gunk (grease, dirt, foliage, etc) inside the tracks. Used Goof Off to further clean the tracks. Turned out that the gunk stopped the passenger side cable holder from traveling back (to open) along the track).

I would be inclined to believe that the cable/track system should run w/o grease, as lots of dirt can gum up the operation.

Since I was at it, I also removed the driver's side cable/track --- gave it a good cleaning w Goof Off. Just as dirty as the passenger side --- but did not have issues riding up/down the track.

So, for anyone w a sunroof coupe, where the sunroof is not operating a smoothly (based on visual and audio cues) I highly recommend removing and giving it a good cleaning.

[83_Silberpfeil]

Bumping/reviving this thread, perhaps someone can chime in on sunroof seals...

my 83SC has...

1) long piece felt seal for the front of sunroof opening/frame
2) long piece felt seal for the front of sunroof panel --- falling apart, so I ripped it out
3) short piece felt seal for rear of sunroof panel

According to Wayne's book and also some posts here, #2 is not needed/used. But my car had it.

I am thinking of installing it back with new one for #2. Or should I leave it out and just go with 1 & 3 above??

Thanks!!

[RSBob]

#2 should attach to the back of the sunroof panel which will mate with #1 when closed. When I rehabbed all my seals, I did #3 as well thinking that any water which made it past 2 would be caught and diverted to the drains by 3. Don't know that as fact, but logically it seems to make sense. Never had water infiltration in the cabin due to the sunroof.