Removing engine oil cooler, engine installed?

[tevake]

A while back I had the engine out of my SC chasing oil leaks.
I found the block casting flaw under the cooler to be the likely the issue.

Cleaned it real well and sanded the area and did 3 or 4 layers of J B weld on it, building it up as best as the too viscous epoxy would allow.

It ran nice and dry for about 500 miles then developed a leak in the same area again.

I suspect the leak may be at the fix location. Should have etched the area more diligently I guess. And built up more epoxy.

Well at any rate I spent the day trying to get to the bolts to remove the cooler.
Someone here said it's possible to do with the engine in the car.
The plastic shroud at the top of the cooler is just not letting me get past it.

Anyone had success at pulling the engine cooler with the engine in the car?
Any tips ?

Cheers Richard

[Simon_R]

Richard, I've done it -- I did a partial drop by a couple of inches. Was a lot of stuffing around I suspect that in the end I probably should have just done a full drop. But, yes it can be done.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[kwikt 911]

On my 72 the engine shroud must be removed to access the top nuts...unless you butcher up the shroud for access.

[TargaTony]

I did it. It was a pain in the a**! I did not drop the engine. Do Not want to do it again, but I am not the most experienced and was nervous about doing a drop. It is possible.

[911obgyn]

I have done it, removed the sheet metal air dam between the valve covers. Mine is a 3.2 and mine had a smaller piece of shroud above the cooler that was removable. I dont think i lowered the motor

[boyt911sc]

Originally Posted by tevake

A while back I had the engine out of my SC chasing oil leaks.
I found the block casting flaw under the cooler to be the likely the issue.

Cleaned it real well and sanded the area and did 3 or 4 layers of J B weld on it, building it up as best as the too viscous epoxy would allow.

It ran nice and dry for about 500 miles then developed a leak in the same area again.

I suspect the leak may be at the fix location. Should have etched the area more diligently I guess. And built up more epoxy.

Well at any rate I spent the day trying to get to the bolts to remove the cooler.
Someone here said it's possible to do with the engine in the car.
The plastic shroud at the top of the cooler is just not letting me get past it.

Anyone had success at pulling the engine cooler with the engine in the car?
Any tips ?

Cheers Richard

Richard,

Do you have a 3.0 liter SC engine with CIS? If you do, it would be very difficult to remove the engine oil cooler in situ. Even with an engine partial drop, the Fiberglas cover for the oil cooler will not come off while the aluminum vacuum hose for the AAR is installed. There is not enough space to get the Fiberglas cover off without bending the aluminum tube.

If you have carb, it would be a piece of cake removing the engine cooler in situ. Keep us posted.

Tony

[tevake]

Originally Posted by boyt911sc

Richard,

Do you have a 3.0 liter SC engine with CIS? If you do, it would be very difficult to remove the engine oil cooler in situ. Even with an engine partial drop, the Fiberglas cover for the oil cooler will not come off while the aluminum vacuum hose for the AAR is installed. There is not enough space to get the Fiberglas cover off without bending the aluminum tube.

If you have carb, it would be a piece of cake removing the engine cooler in situ. Keep us posted.

Tony

Yep Tony, it is a 3.0 CIS engine with after market exhaust headers/ heat exchangers that have to be removed to get the cooler out. These give very difficult access to the header bolts. But that hurtle is done now.

I spent longer getting one hard to reach bolt on top of that plastic shroud out this afternoon, using a mirror and lots of straining. Than it would have taken to get the axels disconnected. And still the shroud wouldn't come out.

Am coming to the conclusion that dropping the engine is the way to continue. This will give me a clearer shot at doing a better repair on the case anyways.

Thanks guys for the input.

Cheers Richard

[boyt911sc]

Originally Posted by tevake

Yep Tony, it is a 3.0 CIS engine with after market exhaust headers/ heat exchangers that have to be removed to get the cooler out. These give very difficult access to the header bolts. But that hurtle is done now.

I spent longer getting one hard to reach bolt on top of that plastic shroud out this afternoon, using a mirror and lots of straining. Than it would have taken to get the axels disconnected. And still the shroud wouldn't come out.

Am coming to the conclusion that dropping the engine is the way to continue. This will give me a clearer shot at doing a better repair on the case anyways.

Thanks guys for the input.

Cheers Richard

Richard,

It is not how hard you worked but how smart you did the job. There are different conditions and scenarios how to approach doing a particular job. If you have a carburator system, it would be easy and simple. However, with a CIS, it is a totally different ball game. As you have experienced, you could remove the engine cooler with more work and effort plus frustration and aggravation to get it done.

Or simply drop the motor and enjoy the work. For those who have not dropped a motor it is understandle the anxiety. But once you have done one, the next engine drop is just another routine work. Plus you could do better and more efficient job with the motor sitting on a engine stand.

If you think it is frustrating and a back breaking job to remove the engine oil cooler in situ, wait till you install it back. You are better off dropping the motor and be done with less strain on your back. Keep us posted.

Tony

[JohnJL]

I did this 2 weeks ago, took 30 mins max. The tightest part was sneaking it past the coilovers...with a stock shock in back this is a pain but certainly not impossible.

You do need to remove the top grey deflector over the cooler. Then the right-side and rear metal engine shrouding (6 bolts?). Then just the 4 bolts of the cooler itself.

[boyt911sc]

Originally Posted by JohnJL

I did this 2 weeks ago, took 30 mins max. The tightest part was sneaking it past the coilovers...with a stock shock in back this is a pain but certainly not impossible.

You do need to remove the top grey deflector over the cooler. Then the right-side and rear metal engine shrouding (6 bolts?). Then just the 4 bolts of the cooler itself.

John,

Did you remove the engine oil cooler from a 3.0 liter SC engine with CIS? While it is not physically impossible to remove the engine cooler with the engine with CIS installed, I find it very challenging. Even with the engine out from the car, removing the inner bolt that secures the gray Fiberglas shroud is not convenient. Did you do it with a 3.0 liter SC CIS motor installed in 30 mins? Thanks.

Tony

[JohnJL]

mine has a carrera intake but I have also done it with a cis motor. you need to take the airbox off and have a bright light and get your head back in there. dive in to the engine compartment. no hat...you will need a shower after. 10mm swivelhead 6" extension and 10mm racheting wrench helps too.

[tevake]

Well I did end up dropping the engine to get access to the hidden bolts of the top plastic shroud. Not easy to reach even with the engine out, also required removing the metal air lines that lay right over the top of the shroud. To be able to remove the shroud.

Ok. Got the cooler off expecting to find the J B weld epoxy that I used to fill the dimple in the case to be the source of the new leak, thinking that the oil pressure had probably pop my patch off the case.

No dice, it's still in place with no signs of leaking there. All three of the new seals between the case and cooler look fine too. So I'm stumped. There was a little oil that spilled from one of the top ports when I pulled the cooler off. So that does make it a little harder to look for the source of the leak, during disassembly.

I did pressure check the cooler when it was out a couple of months ago, using air pressure up to about 15 psi. No problems there at that pressure. Plus the leak resently seemed to be between the cooler and the case. The leaked oil was right there at the bottom of that space. Nothing showing on the bottom of the cooler itself, just in the space right below the place where the cooler mounts.

Any ideas where to look now? Should I repressure test the cooler to a higher pressure? That didn't look like where the oil was coming from.

Can there be an issue with those seals that is hard to see? That is where my thoughts are leaning. As I just don't see where else it could be coming from.

Anyone had problems with leaks from those seals?

Any other ideas?

Thanks Richard

[Quinlan]

It could well be the oil cooler. I had that same problem, and chased it like you did. Only when I tested the cooler at about 60psi did it reveal the leak.
A tester is easy to make with a 6 x 6 inch piece of 3/16 aluminum or 1/8 steel, a schrader valve and your old oil cooler seals.

[pete3799]

I'd test it again at 60psi and drop it in a 5 gallon bucket of water.
That's how I found my leak.

[tevake]

Thanks Pete and Quinlan, When you were trying to find your leaks, was there oil showing up in the bottom of the cooler? In the bottom fins and on that bottom pipe?

That what has me looking elsewhere, the bottom of the cooler is clean and dry.
The oil is showing up only at the bottom of the joint between the cooler and the engine case. Causing me to suspect the problem is in that area.

Could you describe you testing setup that can hold the higher pressure?
I'm wanting to test at a higher pressure just to make sure it's not the cooler

I'm also planning to do some more build up on the demple patch just to be sure.

Also thinking of trying the red seal that is available for the bottom port.
Anyone had success using that seal?
That is really where the leak seems to be, at the bottom seal. There was not evidence of leak showing in the ledges below the upper seals or below the demple.

One thing that has caught my attention at the bottom seal is that the recess in the cooler is less than half as deep than all of the other seal recesses, is that normal?
Also is there a correct method to use while doing up the fasteners holding the cooler on?

Cheers Richard

[Quinlan]

The bottom seal is for the low pressure tube on the bottom of the oil cooler, that feeds into the return hose to the oil tank. It's unlikely that it would be the leaky one (but anything can happen).
The tester that I made was from some scrap aluminum plate I had lying around. Using a piece of paper, I located the four corner holes from the oil cooler, as well as one of the top two holes where the cooler seals to the crankcase.
I then drilled five holes - one for each of the corners and one for the hole where the seal was. The only one which has a critical dimension is that last one - it has to be sized to the schrader valve (just a metal valve stem with a threaded base from a tire shop). Put the schrader valve into the plate, then put all three of your old seals into the recesses in the cooler - this will ensure that the plate is square to the cooler when you bolt the two together.

Now bolt the plate with valve to the cooler.
Pump some air into it (about 60lbs) and then submerge in a tub of water.

[boyt911sc]

Richard,

You could make a homemade oil cooler pressure tester from scrap materials. The local tire shops are just throwing the valve stems away every time they installed new tires. Got a few for FREE. Find a 10" long flat bar about 1"~1.25" wide, a C-clamp, a rubber stopper, bolts, nuts, and washers. Or use a nicely built pressure tester by Stromski.



Immersed the oil cooler in a tub of water. A pressure of 40-~70 psi. is more than sufficient to locate the leak if any. BTW, you only need to use the two (2) upper holes for the test.



I've been using my contraption for years until I found a PP member selling a Stromski pressure tester with a built-in pressure gauge. They both work well for me.

Tony

[tevake]

That looks like an easy way to go at getting the pressure up to a good testing level, thanks. I think I will try doing that. Thanks for the pics and details Tony.

Still doubtful that the leak is in the cooler itself, as it is still clean and dry from its resent cleaning during the last exercise at fixing the leak. But don't want to have to do all of this again so soon. So will give it a good check out.
I may be shrinking from the cost of a replacement cooler. But it seams that if the leak is in the cooler there would be some oil to be found in the lower fins.

Has anyone had issues with with the green seals between the cooler and the engine case? My seats look fine and I used new seals, put in dry and tightened down
gradually moving from nut to nut. Didn't use torque wrench. Is the torque critical to getting a good seal there. They're were quite snug. What is the correct torque for those nuts.

I really appreciate the input as I hope to get this sorted this time around.

Cheers Richard