Alignment tech unable to get front camber play

[Multipass]

Hi!

I just did a whole bunch of work on my 1984 911 to get it prepped for this seasons autocross. I installed turbo tie rods, stainless brake lines, rear shocks and some pads and rotors as well as new CCW wheels and Steve Wong chip.

The alignment tech just called me saying I have about -3 degrees of camber on front passenger side and -1 degree on the front drivers side. He says he is unable to pry in the negative camber. I chiseled away the majority of the strut goop and I'm not sure why he had difficulty.

The car is below Euro ride height now and was previously aligned by the same place with last years torsion bar upgrade and new front shocks. Changes are the turbo tie rods and the CCW's which are the proper offset, are an inch wider in the front and fill out the wheel well a little more than the old 996 twist wheels. Other than that it's the same car.

Bottom line I guess is why is the tech saying I can only get .2 degrees of camber play in the front????? That sounds ridiculous? Is there anything people normally are unaware of if they have never aligned an old 911??

[dfhtrhjn]

Does you alignment guy know what he's doing?
Has your car ever been hit?

I use elephant racing quick adjust camber plates, they give you an extra 1.5 degrees +/-. Worst case you use a product like that to get you more wiggle room.

[Multipass]

Alignment guy has never aligned an old school Porsche so I don't think he knows what he's doing. The guy that did it last year isn't there I guess. They did a bit of a bait and switch honestly. I thought I was going to get an experienced tech. I think he set the toe and said he wasn't gonna charge me..... we'll see. I was hoping I could get an idea to help him understand what he's doing wrong and get it back on the rack.

The car has never been hit and was aligned successfully last year. I would have done camber plates, but I thought the factory camber adjustment was quite wide?

[Autoban]

Originally Posted by Multipass

Hi!

The car is below Euro ride height now and was previously aligned by the same place with last years torsion bar upgrade and new front shocks. Changes are the turbo tie rods and the CCW's which are the proper offset, are an inch wider in the front and fill out the wheel well a little more than the old 996 twist wheels. Other than that it's the same car.

You are saying that the car is below Euro height now. I believe you will run out of adjustment travel the lower the front is. I had the same issue and had to bring the front back up a little to get enough adjustment to get the camber in spec. There are aftermarket solutions to provide you more adjustment if you want to keep your car really low.

Juergen

[Multipass]

Yeah, it's slightly below euro spec now. But one corner is -1 degree. Why can't the other corner also be -1 degree??

[T77911S]

check ride height left to right.
bent strut
damage on one side.

just curious if you had it corner balanced and if that would indicate any problems....along with left to rt height.

[Liam O]

I had the exact same problem on mine doesn't have to have been hit only needs to have been slammed against a kerb.

[Multipass]

Ride height left to right is pretty spot on. Struts are new Koni reds and were aligned with them last year. I have not hit anything or any curbs since then.

I haven't tried corner balancing. What is the typical amount of camber adjustment from the factory? Like I said, the guy is only claiming 0.2 degrees of adjustment and that sounds silly to me.

[theenico]

If he was a good alignment tech (regardless of type of vehicle), he could use SAI/KPI, camber, and included angle to find either a bent strut or spindle.

Pop this string into Google: camber sai included angle chart

Read up and blow the alignment techs mind

[T77911S]

if you lowered the car more from the last time it was aligned previous damage could now be showing up.

[Multipass]

Still wondering what the expected degree of camber variation I should expect???

Car is the same ride height as last time it was aligned. It's not slammed....just tucking tire ever so slightly in the front.

[Driven97]

The further you lower the car, the more static negative camber you should get.

-3° seems like a lot on stock camber plates but not totally implausible. -1° Max is not enough though.

[T77911S]

then clarify what has changed since last alignment. just the struts? (that effects camber).

the strut goop. did you remove that AFTER he tried to align it?

try another shop.
when I had my 930 done I made sure to ask if they had done porsches. the shop also had the state of the art alignment machine. $80. you don't need a Porsche shop but do ask around about where to take it.

[Multipass]

I agree that I should get more static negative camber. I'm ok with that so long as I may have a window of -1 to -3 to play with. That would be nice. I'm at work so don't have my Bentley. Still hoping I could know the camber tolerances...someone might chime in.

I only changed the tie rods, but come to think of it I might have lowered it when I did the torsion bars and not re-aligned. The consequently further lowered ride height (maybe 0.25-.5 inches) might have happened then. So that might have been after the last alignment. The front corner in question is all new parts as of about 3-4 years ago.

I removed the goop before the alignment but it was a hasty job. I'm thinking some might have fallen in when he loosened the allen bolts restricting movement?? I also think he was just using a pry bar when he may need to use a small sledgehammer.

This guy has never even seen an old Porsche I'm pretty sure and I'm disappointed they didn't tell me I wasn't getting the guy I expected.

I will most likely be trying a different shop. I'm in Massachusetts if anyone has any suggestions.

[T77911S]

i bought a 914 (my first Porsche) when I was young. found out it had been in a wreck. took a while for me to figure out the 2 big dents on the inside of the body were from where it was porta powered out. also could not figure out why the windshield stuck out above the window frame on the drivers side. also had one side with more neg camber than the other.
hey, I was very young and excited about buying my first Porsche.
this was the late 80's.

I don't know how straight they are from the factory.
if you cant figure it out and it really concerns you you might consider putting it on a cellete.

[1979-930]

If you are that low you should have installed 12mm or 19mm raised spindle struts.

I would not take my car to a shop that isn't familiar with Porsches. I searched for two days to find a guy that knew what I have and can perform a proper alignment and corner balance. I would search for Tech Inspection shops near you on NASA or SCCA and call them. They can point you in the right direction. That's how I found the shop I'm taking my car to.

[tobluforu]

Although I agree about taking it to a "Porsche" shop to get a full alignment, front and back, it is not rocket science adjusting camber on these cars. Actually, its frickn easy as heck with some home made tools on the front, same goes with adjusting front toe. Like stated, -3 is a whole heck of a lot of negative camber, and .2 is a ridiculously small amount of movement. Something isn't right, and its either the tech, some parts put on wrong, or something is bent.
I run front camber which is -2, rear -2.5.. Caster 6.5, 0 toe in front, 1/8 rear toe. Pretty good starting point.
Good luck
Good luck.

[Flojo]

-2 up front is... sporty

[ChrisBennet]

With all this lowering and camber changing, I hope there is a corner weighting in there too.
The car can have perfectly even heights corner to corner and be way off on corner weights.