Backdate project front end sequence
 

I am in the process of a backdate of my 1985:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/819396-so-how-backdate-project-starts.html

and I am at the front end stage. I have a couple of questions for those that have gone before:

1. I just received my new metal fenders and bumper, but I do not have the hood yet (looking at a fiberglass solution for that). Since the hood will most likely be fiberglass, should I fit the fenders first or should the hood go first and fenders next? I imagine that the bumper is the last bit to fit - is that correct?

2. I know the fenders and bumper need to be painted after proper fitting. I also know the inside of the fenders need a treatment for rock and such. Is the best way to spray the inside treatment and outside paint after fender install or prior? If prior to final install, how is the masking is done accurately on the seam area to prevent the inner spray there?

Anyway, thanks in advance. I am sure I will have other questions as I tak ethi son.

Mike

Having all 4 pieces to cross-check alignment might be easiest. Getting the fenders aligned and using the bumper and hood to make sure things are square will help.

I would get everything massaged and fit then remove, spray your chip guard then shoot your colors. Of course epoxy primer on metal and 2k on fiberglass and over epoxy before color.

Hood shocks, rubber gasket and latch must be in place for proper fitment. Shocks push the hood upward with tremendous force and picks up that minute amount of slack in the hinges that translates into millimeters of misalignment. Same for the rubber but no need to glue it in until final assembly. Good idea to leave the tank out as you can crawl in underneath to assess latch alignment, hood/fender seal, etc. Also good idea to rig up latch puller wire at front poking out of one of the various holes in the slam panel so you don't have to go back to the driver's door all the time to pull the latch. Fiberglass hood is a challenge-a big one. Patience and time will be your best friend.
Cheers,
Johan

flat6pilot, Uwon - I deleted the hood shocks and am using a prop rod. The latch is staying and I will be buying one of those backdate fiberglass hoods. The rubber seal is in and in good shape. I was debating holding off on the hood as I read that those fiberglass ones need to be massaged anyway. Perhaps I leave the metal hood on for now to use as a guide, then install bumper and fenders and lastly the replacement hood? Is that lame?

Thanks Dpmulvan...makes sense.

^^ yes, can't use the shocks on a fiberglass hood.. and are you using fiberglass bumper or original metal type?

i'm in the middle of finishing a back date now. the FG hoods take an awful lot of work to fit, and can still be questionable after committing many hours trying to make it fit. budget way more time than you think you'll need if you go this route.

i tried. trimmed, re-radiused the hood lenghtwise, tweaked, shortened a hood latch to try and get it tight, etc.

i ultimately redirected my efforts to a lengthened steel short hood. i just was never happy with how we were able to get the FG to fit.

lesson learned for me, i'll stick to steel unless i build a race/track car...

fitting the fenders now and leaving everything finger tight at least you could starting running wiring harnesses and lighting bits. the resistance to committing to the hood now is somewhat perplexing.

from the guy that has half the parts for a suspension redue sitting in my living room saving my allowance to afford the other half to start the project...

rattlsnak: metal bumpers and metal fenders so far...

dwelle: that is my concern - all the fiddling and not sure of the end result. I was only thinking of fiberglass hood because I don't desire to cut and weld a new front piece on. I do remember there was someone who made a metal backdate hood...I may have to look that person up.

juanbenea: no resistance to sourcing hood now. I am collecting the bits and thought I could start fitting some now. I gotta start cutting/moving away interference pieces (bumper shock mounts, horns and such) and see what attachment points I need to support.

Thanks

marc zurlinden in monterey makes them. he did mine.

if you go that route, you can start fitting the fenders with the existing hood.

i didn't cut any of the bumper mounts front or back, and i modified some LWB bumpers to bolt to the existing spot that anchors the bumper shock. i did notch the fenders a small bit by the horn grille to clear the top of the front bumper shock bracket. the only FG i ended up using was the front bumper, and i may still go steel yet...

dwelle: thanks, that is the guy. Pricey, but worth it?

I see the interference at the horn grill to bumper shock area. Other than that and relocating the horns, it looks pretty straight forward.

I took a steel long hood and grafted the short hood latch panel.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1494759777.jpg

See post #19 in http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/748639-evolution-carrera-rst.html

Hope this helps.
Johan

Uwon, do you have details of what was involved? Did you do it yourself or did someone do that for you? It looks great...

mike, pricey? yes. i picked it up and paid cash, so he gave me a nice break there.

but when your in for paint and finally realize that the FG isn't going to cut it and you need a hood straight away...i justified it. how many hours would it take me to engineer something i've never done before? i'd rather be driving than working.

fortunately for me, my backdate budget was funded by an accident (not my fault, other drivers insurance paid handsomely) that killed the passenger fender and front bumper. so it made sense for me.

that said, we're still fitting it, so i'll have a better idea early next week on how my "investment" fits!...

dwelle - I PM'd you.

didn't get it, feel free to email me at mdwelle@gmail.com...

Good point. Forgot about that.

SpiderMike......I cut the front potion of the short hood latch base frame from a damaged short hood and I slowly started to fit it onto the long hood by grinding, cutting and bending. Once I thought that I had things right I screwed the grafted frame to the long hood and then installed it on the car. I then worked from underneath through the tank cavity to smooth out and align the grafted portion. I left the final welding and finishing to the pros.
Johan

Thanks for the explanation Uwon....seems like too much effort for me. I need a bolt on solution. The least amount of hurdles for me the better to get this project finished.

I admire all the effort you put into your project. Well done.

^^^Well understood. If you want an operating latch, it's a daunting task which will need a good body man. If you can live with a frunk that does not lock, then the rubber hood cleats is the way to go. Good luck.
Johan

Uwon,

Can you tell me the offset distance going from longhood to shorthood on the location of the latch? Is that about 2.5 inches or something? If you are able to give an accurate dimension that would be even better.

Mike

As long as the contours of the FG hood are correct, the gaps and minor height differences can easily be corrected by an experienced FG body man (or even by an amateur who is willing to learn).

Thanks. I think I am heading to a sheetmetal solution however.

Here is the effort today massaging the metal fenders to fit:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1494901869.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1494901869.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1494901869.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1494901869.jpg

It helped having the hood/lid on there.

Like the black and white look. Retro cop car.

hey mike, did you do the dansk or porsche fenders?...

I am diggin the look too. I will drive it a while before painting. I may just keep the bumpers black.

Marc, the parts are new from Porsche.

So this sequence worked out well for me:

Keep the original hood on, then exchange the fenders and get them to align well with the chassis and hood, then fit the bumper and align well with the other bits, then replace the hood.

I am wondering how I will make sure to keep the alignment once I take everything off for paint. Someone suggested, in another thread, to drill holes through the mating parts and cleco them together. When reinstalling the painted part, line up these small holes, reinstall the clecos, fasten with normal hardware, and then remove and fill the cleco holes. Are there any other creative ideas?

I received my metal hood, and, with the help of my wife and an abandoned pack of Coors Light (only used for the zombie apocalypse when the good stuff runs out), I got it installed and aligned in about 15 minutes. Pretty easy actually. The fit is great. I used one spacer on each of the rear attach locations.

The hood has one flat spot that will have to be dealt with and some superficial scratches that were touched up - it came from Porsche that way I think as there was no evidence of tampering with the box.

After taping off the mating body edges that could be damaged and using some towels in the vulnerable areas, I was able to do it unscathed. The beer box helped raise the hood so that I could fasten the screws. I used the same arrangement to remove the old hood.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1497132203.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1497132203.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1497132203.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1497132203.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1497132203.jpg

I think I am now needing to remove all of these metal items and send them out for paint !

Very nice Mike. All metal front end, that is awesome.

David

Thanks David! I have been rear ended twice (in about 30 years of owning this car) and pushed under the cars ahead of me. I wanted the steel up front. I also went all steel in back.

It's looking real good Mike!

Thanks Lou! Is this taking me forever or what?!

lol, yes it has been a while but that's what happens when you do it right.

Keep up the good work!!
 

Yes it takes forever. I have days and weeks, maybe even months, into the assembly of the front of my backdate. On of these days I'll do a build thread on it:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1503968492.jpg


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1503968641.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1503968715.jpg


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1503968796.jpg

What a great build!
Just a word of caution IF you are going to use hood shocks- in my build they pushed up taking up whatever slack there was in the hinges (they may seem nice and tight with little or no slop until you put the extreme pressure from the shock). Co-incidentally, Jonny042, who just posted above, came to the rescue with a replacement hinge that I was able to use.
Cheers,
Johan

No shocks for me - I have the carbon prop rod.