replacing front rotors/power bleeder

[Kmatts]

Hey all,
after attempting to replace my front rotors on my SC last night (unsuccessfully I might add). I realized that it nearly impossible to remove the front calipers w/o detaching the brake lines.
It does look possible buy hanging the caliper with a coat hanger, but i imagine it would put quite a bit of stress on the lines.
I have a couple of questions for everyone.
Here's a little background. I have replaced the MC, rotors and pads (or will once the fronts are complete). Should I go ahead and replace my brake lines with SS ones? My rubber lines look alright to me, but if you guys think it's a worthwhile investment, I may as well go ahead and do the work since i'm there already.
what brands do u all reccommend?
I'm going to go ahead and buy the motive power bleeder from Pelican because i'm just tired of dealing with the stomp method.
Do I need anything other than the $42 product, no adaptors i hope?
any help appreciated.
Kyle.

[old_skul]

The Motive bleeder is a fantastic investment. I love mine and won't ever go back to buddy-bleeding.

The calipers hang from the overhead lines just fine - that's how I did mine. You can also just completely detach them from the brake lines, especially if you wind up moving to SS brake lines, which is also an nice, easy upgrade.

Although the rubber brake lines in your car might look and feel okay on the outside, it's really what's on the inside that counts - so my recommendation is always to replace with a known good line if you're unsure about what's on the car now. The inside of that nice-looking rubber line could be rotting away right now. The investment is good for peace of mind.

[APKhaos]

Kyle,
The rotor replacement does not require detatching the brake lines. Take a close look at the strut bracket where the hard line and the flexible line are joined. You will see a slightly curved metal 'clip' that locates in a groove in the brass end of the flex line. Pop the clip out, and life gets easy.

Definitely replace the flex lines. Stock rubber lines are best IMHO, because they work. The SS lines should be replaced every year or so.
While you are in there, why not rebuild the calipers? The rebuild kits are cheap, and it is a simple job.

The Motive power bleeder is a gift from god. No adaptors required for your Porsche, although you will want to buy the universal adaptor so you can use it on ALL your cars. That thing rocks.

[usafa]

Tony,

You mentioned the ss lines should be replaced after about 1 year. Why is this so?

[masraum]

stick with stock Genuine Porsche rubber lines (available from Pelican). On my car '88 you have to detach the brake lines as the clip is not something that you can take off without removing the lines, but I suspect different years or possibly different struts may mean the difference there. Get a pressure or vacuum bleeder, well worth the money and both beat the old pedal pump method.

[HarryD]

I have heard that the liner in the stainless steel lines develop cracks over time. That is why they need to be replaced frequently. The OEM units can last over 10 years in normal use. Except for extreme racing use, you probably do not need the SS lines.

[JavaBrewer]

I did the same job on my car and had to borrow a friends power bleeder and that special 11mm wrench...the one with the multiple sides whose name escapes me now.

Anyway, I contend that the connection does not have a nice clip that slides off...mine was a welded tab forcing me to disconnect the hard line from the soft rubber line. Here is a picture and note that the connection in question is the one on the center of the tube closest to the rotor...not the one to the right mounted vertically.



I don't know if its just my car, my Bilsteins, or what but this same dilema also slowed me down a few days.

[Kmatts]

ok, guys, you got me thinking now.
Is the caliper rebuild difficult? I haven't even read how to do it in Wayne's book yet. I'm just proud of myself for not crushing myself under the car yet. I'm not the most mechanically inclined guy in the world, but i'm sure trying.
I'll go look at the brake lines and rebuild kit on Pelican right now.

[caliber60]

I just replace my front rotors and brake pads. You don't need to remove the brake line. Just hold the caliper on one hand and remove the rotor with another. After you remove the rotor, bolt back the caliper to the original place.

You still need to have someone pump the brake at the end even using Motive bleeder. I have not try the Speedbleeder yet. I will do that next.

Make sure you clamp the vent tube on the brake fluid reservior, otherwise the brake fluid will come out to the floor(my experience).

If you want to rebuild the caliper, Vertex is selling a rebuild unit for $99 each. It's all cleaned and sand-blasted. It's cheap.

I would replace the rubber brake line with factory original item. These metal DOT approved lines might need more regular checking.

Did you have any difficulty removing the dust cover? I actually had to cut off the cover with Dremel. I did try the hammer and chisel. No luck. I did not want to damage the hub by hitting it accidentally. The dust cover is only $20 each.

[APKhaos]

Caliper rebuild is not difficult at all. The hardest part is removing the calipers, and you've already done that for the rotor swap.

Popping the pistons out requires compressed air. If you don't have a compressor, buy a $30 air tank at Pep Boys and fill it up at the gas station - plenty of capacity to do this little job. From that point, its simply some cleaning and then replacing two simple seals on each piston. Easy peasy.

The SS hoses are prone to failure of the pressure line and/or fittings that can't be seen under the SS sheath. They add no value aside from extra mechanical strength if you want to go rallying. The stock lines last for years.

[masraum]

caliper rebuild is very simple, shoot, theres a seal like a rubber band and one moving part the piston(ok 2 pistons) To pop the pistons out I reconnected the caliper to the brake line after I got it off of the rotor. I then used a clamp to hold one piston in place while I pressed the brake pedal some to move the unrestrained piston out, I then clamped the previously free piston and moved the other out some. Using this method I managed to remove both pistons without the use of compressed air. Caliper rebuilding is primarily a cleaning issue.

Caliber, it is easy to get the dust cap off if you put a 2" or 1 7/8" muffler clamp in the ridge that runs around the end. You can the pry on the clamp. rather than the cap itself.

[Kmatts]

David, my lines are also held in place by a tab that is welded to the green bilstein (is green sport?). There is no way to do this job without disconnecting the lines. I suppose u could grind the tab off, but that's just insane.
Caliber, my dust covers came right off. The backs were a little bit of a pain in the rear, but that's just because the bolts had not come off in so long. I am NOT putting the shields back on the car. I'll save them, that's about it.
Tony, ok, i will go ahead and buy the caliper rebuild kit then. I have a small compresser (about the size of a six back of mobile one). I think it goes to 75-100 psi. Is this good enough for the caliper rebuild?
any special tools i need to buy for this?
I'll go ahead and pick up the stock brake lines as well.
Hell, i may as well go ahead and paint the calipers while i'm in there.
(this job gets more spendy everytime i think about it!, My wife will be thrilled).

[Kmatts]

i meant brake "hoses" above not lines. I'm hoping i don't need to worry about the actual lines.
Kyle.

[masraum]

hmm, when you put the pistons back in they need to be oriented correctly, 20 deg off center, there's a notch in the piston... I just made a tool from some sheetmetal that I had around, but they sell them too, I think, here're directions, http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/911_caliper_rebuild/911_caliper_rebuild.htm

[don911]

Kyle,
There's a spring clip on the tab that is on the strut. If you remove the clip, you can get a little more flexability in the line/hose. You can remove the calipers without taking off the brake lines. Just be careful not to kink the hard brake line. A non issue if you're going to do a caliper rebuild. You can come by and rebuild my calipers after you do yours.

[pbs911]

I installed the SS lines on my car and took them off the next day. They just didn't do anything for me and I was concerned i would not be able to see the wear. The OEM hoses are great.

Calipoer rebuilds are a breaze. You might as well since the MC and lines will be fresh. Goo time to paint them and bake them in the oven for a good finish.

I have a motive bleeder sitting in a box for the past year. I have the Speedbleeder valves and realy like them. One man opperation and have shown no signs of wear over the past 2+ years of beeding the brakes. I have never heard of someone failing clamp off the vent line and spraying brake fluid all over the fender using the Speedbleeder. I also like the fact that to bleed my brakes at the track all I need is a can, 12" of tubing and a 8mm wrench.

[Kmatts]

Don, unless i'm going completely insane (which is indeed has a strong likelihood of occuring), there is no tab on the strut. I did remove the fork shaped tab on the inner wall though (essentially the outside of the trunk/gastank). If I don't severly injure myself during this process. I'd be happy to rebuild your calipers, for a nominal hourly fee of course.
build time will be around 345 hrs.
Kyle.

[Kmatts]

OK guys, i just ordered the motive bleeder and caliper rebuild kit for 2front and 2rear calipers from Pelican. I purchased the brake lines from a buddy locally. Hopefully I'm not digging myself into hole (aside from financially). Perhaps I should paint the calipers too. hmmmm. anyone tried that? advice? I saw some caliper point on Pelican, but 50 bucks? yikes! thx again all. I appreciate all the info very much.
Kyle.