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KTL KTL is offline
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16x6 Fuchs Variations?

I know the Fuchs have been covered to death here, but I figured i'd post a new topic since this request is kinda specific.

What's the difference between these 16x6 Fuchs wheels? Here's what i've found so far...............

Wheel group 1 is :

911 361 020 43 and 911 361 020 97

The 43 wheel is listed in my parts reference as the 16x6 for years 78-84. The 97 wheel is the same but the unpainted or "unvarnished" version. The description of this wheel is as follows. "Perforated disk wheel, 6J x 16 aluminum alloy-forged, black star (43 part #)/unvarnished (97 part #), rim flange polished.

Wheel group 2 is:

911 362 113 00 and 911 362 113 90

The 00 wheel is listed in my parts reference as the 16x6 for years 85-89. The 90 wheel is the same but the unpainted or "unvarnished" version. The description of this wheel is as follows. "Wheel-cast allumin. alloy, 6J x 16 ET = 36,0, aluminum alloy-forged, black star (00 part #)/unvarnished (90 part #), rim flange polished.

Actually the description changes in 87 to leave out the "aluminum alloy-forged" description. Kinda strange.

So the question is, why different part numbers for wheels that are supposedly the same?

What changed in the 16x6 wheel to cause the part # revision from a 361 020 xx designation to a 362 113 xx designation?

Reason I ask is I have a set of each. The so-called early wheels lead me to believe they were replicas until I found the different part numbers. But, i'm still in doubting they're the real deal. From what I can see, the petals on the early wheel are slightly broader at the outer rim than the later wheel. Also, the early wheel has less manufacturing markings than the later wheel. Early wheel has no o/s info and I don't see the "fox" fella either.

Any info. would be greatly appreciated. Sorry for the huge post.

Thanks,

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Kevin L
Present: '86 Carrera, 89 Corvette Z51 6spd
Past: '87 Carrera, 79 911 SC widebody racecar

Last edited by KTL; 01-27-2003 at 10:34 PM..
Old 01-27-2003, 10:29 PM
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The 911.362.113.XX is definitely a 6x16" Fuchs part number, but isn't 911.361.020.XX a part number for 6x15" Fuchs??
Old 01-27-2003, 11:18 PM
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KTL KTL is offline
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Eric,

Yes, the 911 361 020 xx was a designation for all sorts of Fuchs wheels. Some of which are in fact 15" wheels

Examples:

All of the below used the 911 361 020 xx.

16x6, xx= 43 and 97
16x7, xx= 44 and 98
16x8, xx= 45 and 99

15x6, xx= 00, 10 and 90
15x7, xx= 11, 41, 91 and 93
15x8, xx= 42 and 94

So, would a replica have these part #'s or some other manufacturer's unique numbering????
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Old 01-28-2003, 06:48 AM
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Porsche Crest duh

Ahh yes, the enigmatic Porsche part number merry-go-round! Thanks for setting me straight. I um.. knew that I was just um.. testing you.

Seriously, it sounds like you have verified that the part numbers for each wheel are correct and valid. I can't think of any explanation for the # change other than in-house (unknown) reasons. Although, there could be a correlation between the new (911.362.113.XX) part numbers and the the begining of option M395 (light metal forged wheels). Maybe they went to a different alloy mix, or forging process? In any case, the deal-breaker sounds like the omission of the Fuchs foundry stamp (fox head). I thought ALL Fuchs had this, but I could be wrong. It can be hard to find on old/worn/dirty wheels. Did you look REALLY good?
Old 01-28-2003, 03:05 PM
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KTL KTL is offline
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Thanks Eric. I had never heard of the M395 code.

You also have a good point about the clean wheel issue.

The wheels I got are a BIT dirty on the backside. I'll doublecheck to see if some additional markings could be hidden under the brake dust.
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Old 01-28-2003, 08:21 PM
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Here's What I Found Upon Closer Inspection

Okay, here's what I found with a little cleaning. You were right Eric, that Fuchs fox is easily covered by crud. I had the part # on the early wheel cleaned up, but just below was that fox hiding under some more dust.

The first two pictures show the part # and size/dimensions of the early 911.361.020.43 wheel. Note how there is no offset stamped in the early wheel (there's no ET stamp anywhere- trust me this time).

The second two pictures show the part # and size of the later 911.362.113.00 wheel. Note how the 00 or 90 left out of the end of the part # (no, I didn't crop it from the picture). There's the ET 36 stamp not present on the early wheel.



This next picture shows the difference in the petals of the wheel. Left is the early wheel, right is the later wheel. Look at the petals on the early wheel. They're broader and smoother at the end. The later wheel petals are narrower and more pronounced at the end.



This next picture shows the location on the wheel at the top of the spoke opening near the lug hole. Early wheel is on the left, later on the right.

It appeared to me that the distance from the top of the wheel opening to the edge of the lug hole countersink (indicated by the red lines) is different on the two wheels. So, I used a pair of calipers to measure each of the five distances on each wheel. My measurements indicated the distance on the early wheel was about 0.1" smaller than that of the later wheel.

You can also see in this picture how the tips of the petal (at the hub of the wheel) on the early wheel are a bit wider and flatter than the sharper, narrower tips of the later wheel.



These last pictures and drawing show the lip and cross section at the end of the petals.

The lip is right where the petal end goes from the painted black area to the anodized section of the rim. Early is on the left, late is on the right and bottom.

The early wheel has a comparatively shallow lip (about 0.05") where the later wheel has a noticeably taller lip (about 0.12").
The goop on the later wheel is petroleum jelly by the way.

Another thing I noticed was the cross section of the outer rim was shaped differently. The early wheel is on the top, late is on the bottom of the handmade drawing. When you feel the rim down in the valley, you can feel a bump in the flat area that's not there on the later rim. This bump is present around the entire perimeter of the wheel. Weird.





That's all i've noticed so far. So there seems to be a clear difference between the early and late 16x6 wheel.

If anybody cares......................
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Last edited by KTL; 02-13-2003 at 10:34 AM..
Old 01-31-2003, 11:35 AM
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Wow, I never thought there was that much difference! I can see what you mean about thinking the early ones are replicas. That's what I would think, but I have never seen or heard of replicas with part numbers/fox heads. If it's not too much trouble, I would be interested in seeing two full-frame (entire wheel), side-by-side shots.
Old 01-31-2003, 02:35 PM
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KTL KTL is offline
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Okay,

Finally following up on the differences in these two wheels.

I had the tires stripped off the late wheels and now we can see the "internal" differences between the early and late wheels.

Here are the two side by side from the front. At first glance, they don't seem much different. As I stated above, they're somewhat different. This picture doesn't really show it, but the later wheel, (left) has a brighter anodizing finish. The early wheel's (right) anodizing is sorta pale compared to the ceramic coated appearance of the later wheel.



Some more side by side pictures. Late is on left, early on right:




As you can see below, the late wheel (left) is painted black within the rims, the early wheel (right) is unpainted.



In this next picture, you can see the difference in the interior of the wheels. The faces of the wheels are on the bottom of the picture in my hand. The early (left) wheel doesn't seem to have as prominent of a bead seat as the later wheel. Since the finishes are different colors, this looks even more apparent. You can feel the higher ridges on the black late wheel. The ridges feel smoother on the later wheel.

This picture also shows how the taper of the back barrels (angled middle part of wheel) of the wheels are different. The late wheel has a sharper taper towards the hub of the wheel. The early wheel is not as steep.



This shows the rear of the two wheels from the outside. The early is on the left and the late is on the right.



Basically, after all of this mumbo jumbo, it seems to me that the later wheel is the heavier-duty of the two. Which would make sense. As the 911 got a little heavier after 1983, maybe the smart Germans decided to make the front wheels a little beefier???? I dunno, but that's my theory anyway.
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Last edited by KTL; 02-13-2003 at 11:22 AM..
Old 02-13-2003, 11:16 AM
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Thye also had two part numbers for the 7" wheels.
Old 02-13-2003, 07:28 PM
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Here is a great article. It spells out the variation in Fuch part numbers.

http://members.rennlist.com/911pcars/WheelWts.html
Old 02-13-2003, 07:36 PM
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KTL KTL is offline
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Quote:
They also had two part numbers for the 7" wheels.
Hey man, I just finished picking apart the sixes! Gimme a break!

Really though, thanks Mike.

I recall seeing Sherwood's page previously, and didn't think to check it. Oops.

If nothing else I sorta showed what the differences between the two wheels are, other than simply the part numbers!
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Old 02-13-2003, 08:48 PM
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I used that page to identify the 8 x 16 951 variation for the fronts and the 9 x 16's for the rear. According to the page they should have no problems fitting the front and rear of my 89 Carrera. If they don't, I will be coming after him with a big ugly stick!
Old 02-14-2003, 03:34 AM
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As a new and fist time POrsche owner, I am now wondering, although not concerned, as to why my 1987 Carrera Coupe has the '43' nomenclature over the '00' numbering......

Still a great experience owning my first Porsche

Old 12-19-2009, 03:39 PM
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