Virtual Clutch Inspection (lots of pics)

[Hotwatermusic]

I've just removed my clutch for the first time since owning the car, and really don't know what I'm looking at, condition-wise.


How much life was left on the clutch plate?


Is this a date code of some sort?






Does anyone see anything that would give me cause for concern?


I've been chasing a problem with getting the car into 1st and 2nd gear. I went from trying to adjust the clutch cable, to now dropping the engine and trans, and now taking the clutch apart. Nothing has screamed out to me as being the problem, which is actually a little annoying--cause I want to have something to fix and get this car back on the road. I don't like these "phantom" issues.

[ben parrish]

There is a lot of life left there.

[johnsjmc]

The flywheel surface looks OK .There doesn,t appear to be much disc left before hitting the rivets BUT it doesn't appear to have been done yet. If budget is tight you could just replace the disc,clean and lube the splines and pilot bearing and reinstall the rest.
I would guess hard to shift into 1/2 will be shift coupler bushings and adjustment related.

[schumicat]

I read that disc is 8mm new and 7mm is worn out. So if you have calipers you can measure how much life is left. My 1st thought for problem getting into 1st/2nd is to adjust the coupler, but you are past that. Hopefully it isn't an internal trans problem. I just went through that. Replaced clutch (which had blown to pieces) and found out trans was bad. So drove about 2 feet before next engine drop. Good luck.

[Flat6pac]

The clutch looks good, there is life there.
The arm that you couldnt get off was the problem because it was suposed to idle and it didnt so it made the clutch hard and hard to engage. Lube the vertical shaft through the bell housing.
put it together, antiseize the shaft and lube the throw out bearing on the shaft.
You ll be good to go.
Bruce

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by schumicat

I read that disc is 8mm new and 7mm is worn out.

That is great info. Never read that before. That is only 2/3rds of a sixteenth of an inch. You really can't tell by eyeballing it.

[Hotwatermusic]

Originally Posted by johnsjmc

The flywheel surface looks OK .There doesn,t appear to be much disc left before hitting the rivets BUT it doesn't appear to have been done yet. If budget is tight you could just replace the disc,clean and lube the splines and pilot bearing and reinstall the rest.
I would guess hard to shift into 1/2 will be shift coupler bushings and adjustment related.

It hasn't hit the rivets yet, no. The shift coupler bushings are perfect. I guess I should be more specific about the problems I've been having: it grinds like hell trying to put it in 1st and 2nd. To drive the car home (the last time I drove it) I had to turn it off at every stoplight, put it 1st gear, then turn it back on to drive away. I then skipped 2nd gear and went into 3rd--which still was tricky to get into. There was serious clutch cable adjustment issues though. I believe, hopefully, that those issues have been resolved with what I've done so far.

So a complete clutch replacement isn't necessary from what's shown in the pictures? The clutch release fork is in good shape as well. I'm just so frustrated that I've replaced the pedal cluster, clutch cable, dropped the engine, opened up the clutch, and still haven't found a real reason why I'm grinding gears.

[Hotwatermusic]

Originally Posted by schumicat

I read that disc is 8mm new and 7mm is worn out.

So I've got 50% life left. Replace or not replace. I don't want to throw money away but it was a lot of work to get to this point. If the clutch plate has 50% of its life left, could I assume the same about all related components (pressure plate, bearing, flywheel, etc)?

[rattlsnak]

Do you know how many miles are on that clutch setup now?

[Hotwatermusic]

Originally Posted by rattlsnak

Do you know how many miles are on that clutch setup now?

No, no idea. I myself have put probably 14K miles on the car since getting it a little over 2 years ago, all on this clutch. That's why I was wondering if there was a way to date code the Sachs pressure plate, there's something that looks like production numbers on it. I'm not against replacing everything, but really don't want to if I don't have to...I could certainly spend the money elsewhere on the car.

[DRACO A5OG]

All looks good and still good life on the clutch.

+1 Clean and Lube the TO bearing & Splines.

I default to your Clutch Helper Arm you had nightmares on. That is done, just re-assemble with lube/anti seize. You will be good to go. What you learned is priceless.

If you have a Bentley, follow the reset instructions for the coupler/shifter. After I replaced my coupler with a Derlin Coupler from Ivangene, it took all the slop out. Very easy adjustment. A helper would be very helpful to hold the shifter towards the driver side as you find the proper neutral on the coupler by locking it toward the passenger side. You can also take this opportunity to position the shifter closer to you or further away. 1st, 3rd & 5th should be at a relaxed hand position, if you are reaching too much you may want to position the shifter back until comfortable.

Outstanding Work HWM OUSTANDING!

Jim

[dtw]

Moderate discoloration on the flywheel, I wouldn't get excited about it now - get it resurfaced properly next time you are in there (in a few years when that clutch is ready to be replaced).

That TO bearing is pretty dirty, and they're cheap - maybe replace it and the pilot bearing now after the abuse they've been suffering?

Is it just the light, or is that an aluminum pressure plate? If so, nice find.

[rusnak]

That TO bearing looks nasty.

Is there a pic of the inside of the transmission bellhousing? Something is getting parts dirty. Maybe the clutch was slipping due to an oil leak? Need to see the tranny. And if possible, a pic of the motor from a ways pack. I'm wondering if there was a main seal leak, or if one of the motor plugs came loose. Or a tranny leak. The clutch looks dark. Is it oily?

[Quicksilver]

Originally Posted by schumicat

I read that disc is 8mm new and 7mm is worn out. So if you have calipers you can measure how much life is left. My 1st thought for problem getting into 1st/2nd is to adjust the coupler, but you are past that. Hopefully it isn't an internal trans problem. I just went through that. Replaced clutch (which had blown to pieces) and found out trans was bad. So drove about 2 feet before next engine drop. Good luck.

Is that measurement with the marcel compressed? I can't see that having a measurement of the free uncompressed disk would mean anything. The clutch only operates under a clamping load.

[RWebb]

1. check for discoloration on the flywheel - as to whether to do it now or later???

2. measure runout on the flywheel with a dial indicator

- I'd probably resurface the flywheel now just b/c the powertrain is out of the car & b/c the bolts look rusted

3. doesn't the Tech. Spec. booklet have a spec. on the total flywheel thickness?

4. can measure the distance from plate surface to the rivets with a depth gauge to see what's up - when they wear to the surface of the (heat-expanded) rivet, your flywheel will be damaged
- also, think about or find out how long the springs in the plate will be good for

5. often good to just replace the throwout bearing whenever trans & motor are separated
- at least give it a good cleaning

6. check everything else while apart, including the actuation shafts & any hairline cracks on that horseshoe shaped arm - you can see from other threads what usually breaks on these things - they do have certain likely failure points

7. yes clean the bellhousing well like rusnack said

I'll let the pros weigh in beyond the above... I bet Grady has an entire notebooks worth of stuff he is just dying to put onto a thread like this...

[tctnd]

Check the pilot bearing; a bad one will cause the shaft to drag and present the same symptoms as a dragging clutch.
regards,
Phil

[Hotwatermusic]

I cleaned up the TOB bearing. But how do I actually go about lubing it? Where do I put the grease? The splines are suppose to be lubricated as well? Do I just put grease on them? I'm a little confused about the procedure, considering I'm sure it's very important what does and doesn't get lubricated.



Here's the bell housing. Unfortunately I didn't take a picture before I cleaned it, but yeah, it was dirty. Dried crud and film on pretty much everything.



How many bushings am I suppose to have for the clutch releaseshaft housing?



The most noticeable thing when I opened it all up was this red dust on everything. It's colored like rust but I don't see how there can be rust in there. Is this normal?

[schumicat]

the splines on the input shaft and clutch disc should be lubricated so the disc can slide smoothly and not stick to the shaft. Sachs makes a special lube included with new clutch discs (others use distributor lube - you don't want to use a lot or something that will fly around and get on disc). you use a total of 3 seals on the shaft for the TOB - one inside the bell housing below the fork (you can see the little lip where it goes) and one each above/below the arm outside the housing. I used another one on top of the fork (101 projects says to do this) but probably makes no difference. PP sells the seals for $2.50 each.

[Hotwatermusic]

Originally Posted by schumicat

you use a total of 3 seals on the shaft for the TOB - one inside the bell housing below the fork (you can see the little lip where it goes) and one each above/below the arm outside the housing. I used another one on top of the fork (101 projects says to do this) but probably makes no difference. PP sells the seals for $2.50 each.

Yeah, I have those on order. But what about bushings? Isn't there suppose to be some sort of guide bushings for the shaft housing? I can see one at the top--what would be above the fork--and one at the bottom, where it exits the bell housing. I can't tell if mine are good, or if they're even replaceable.

[RWebb]

well the bell housing is be-yoo-tiful now

red dust may be mix of pp material and rust

you need to get a copy of the PET for your year, which is??