3.2 engine modification?

[Trakrat]

Since I'm getting ready to remove my engine and start the process of a rebuild on my own...
I'm curious what you all recommend on upgrading?

I would like to keep it as a 3.2... but I would like to improve the internals and make the engine stronger than a stock 3.2. (after I cut my teeth with this car, I'll look at doing a monster build on a 964)

Any recommendation on what I should be looking at?
Any recommendation on a shop I should talk to?


I've reached out to Steve @ Rennsport Systems, but he's likely busy and slow to respond.
I've reached out to Competition Engineering, but never got a callback/response.

[Raceboy]

You could go with cams, exhaust, ITB's and get plug and play standalone ECU from here: www.facebook.com/vemsporsche. Works with factory sensors.

[gtc]

Head studs. Rod bolts.
Everything else on a 3.2 is pretty strong.

[darrin]

Originally Posted by gtc

Head studs. Rod bolts.
Everything else on a 3.2 is pretty strong.

While I recognize your intent to keep it as a 3.2, still think you should consider getting the cylinders bored to accept 3.4l "max moritz" pitsons and hottter (964?) cams -- along with gtc's suggestions of better rod bolts and head studs. This would leave you with a noticeable bump in power without adding too much more to your build. Sal carella is a good resource on this, as he's helped tune motroinc/chips on a few of these.

[Trakrat]

Originally Posted by gtc

Head studs. Rod bolts.
Everything else on a 3.2 is pretty strong.

Already plan on getting Raceware for all replacements on the engine.

[Trakrat]

Originally Posted by darrin

While I recognize your intent to keep it as a 3.2, still think you should consider getting the cylinders bored to accept 3.4l "max moritz" pitsons and hottter (964?) cams -- along with gtc's suggestions of better rod bolts and head studs. This would leave you with a noticeable bump in power without adding too much more to your build. Sal carella is a good resource on this, as he's helped tune motroinc/chips on a few of these.

Thanks... but I'm not comfortable making permanent changes to the original engine.

[911pcars]

Originally Posted by Trakrat

Thanks... but I'm not comfortable making permanent changes to the original engine.

Huh? "Permanent" mods includes machining to accept parts not factory-equipped for that MY engine. Other than that, modifications to the basic engine don't have to be "permanent".

If mods are desired but aren't comfortable, then keep it ...... original. Did I misunderstand your objectives?

Sherwood

[Trackrash]

A good exhaust and a chip will really wake up a 3,2. 964 cams might be worth considering as well. Now if you need new cylinders.....

[darrin]

Originally Posted by 911pcars

Huh? "Permanent" mods includes machining to accept parts not factory-equipped for that MY engine. Other than that, modifications to the basic engine don't have to be "permanent".

If mods are desired but aren't comfortable, then keep it ...... original. Did I misunderstand your objectives?

Sherwood

exactly -- not mods to case, you can keep your original pistons -- if you want 100% original, track down another set of cylinders and keep your p&c in the attic. If you're already tackling the top end and replacing rod bolts, you're already almost there labor/disassembly-wise.

Put back your original p&c and you're back to 100% original

[AHudson]

Originally Posted by darrin

snipped:> Sal carella is a good resource on this, as he's helped tune motroinc/chips on a few of these.

I'm thinking you mean Sal Carceller, who is a remarkable jewel of a resource on these cars. The cams and pistons are a seriously great mod, but Sal makes a 'Chip + Injector' package that uses modern 4 hole injectors (a mist, not a stream for better, smoother combustion) and a chip that maximizes this combustion. Basically plug and play, totally reversible

I put this in my 3.2 with a Euro pre muffler and 'Sport' Dansk single outlet exhaust. These were not required by any means, but Sal will walk you through whatever other bits you're doing and help map the chip accordingly if needed.

He's really unreal. The chip + injector have made my car start quicker, pull harder, burn more evenly (I have an AFM installed permanently to monitor. The package is fantastically balanced.

Sal is conservative; he does NOT claim any more power than say, a Wong chip, only a more efficient chip/injector package with similar power. The entire package is about the same as some ask for chips alone. I give it a thumbs up.

[JackMan]

Keep the engine stock, rebuild the heads, put on SSIs and then change (lower ratios) the gears -- 2,3,5 -- of your G50 unit and install an LSD, put on adjustable koni's at each corner, reindex (lower) the car, install a wevo shifter, precision shift joint and wevo black pillow mounts for the engine and gearbox. Getting more power out of the engine costs way more than regearing the gearbox.

[Cevan]

Originally Posted by JackMan

Keep the engine stock, rebuild the heads, put on SSIs and then change (lower ratios) the gears -- 2,3,5 -- of your G50 unit and install an LSD, put on adjustable koni's at each corner, reindex (lower) the car, install a wevo shifter, precision shift joint and wevo black pillow mounts for the engine and gearbox. Getting more power out of the engine costs way more than regearing the gearbox.

I'd think twice on the SSIs for a 3.2 engine. Not sure how you can increase performance with a smaller primary ID (35mm) than your exhaust ports (38mm).

[Trakrat]

Originally Posted by 911pcars

Huh? "Permanent" mods includes machining to accept parts not factory-equipped for that MY engine. Other than that, modifications to the basic engine don't have to be "permanent".

If mods are desired but aren't comfortable, then keep it ...... original. Did I misunderstand your objectives?

Sherwood

Exactly... boring out the engine to a larger displacement would be permanent.
I'm not sure what parts needs to be replaced or not yet... as I'm still working on getting the engine disassembled.

Unfortunately I'm having a difficult time finding a reputable Porsche machine shop that is willing to take my money to have my parts cleaned, machined, balanced, etc...

[picinkoff]

Originally Posted by Trakrat

Exactly... boring out the engine to a larger displacement would be permanent.

I'm not sure what parts needs to be replaced or not yet... as I'm still working on getting the engine disassembled.



Unfortunately I'm having a difficult time finding a reputable Porsche machine shop that is willing to take my money to have my parts cleaned, machined, balanced, etc...

Try Ollies in AZ. They are well known and do a good job at a good price. I was happy with their work. They have a price list on their site.
Forgot to mention that it was for my '88 3.2.

Paul

[Catorce]

Originally Posted by Trakrat

Exactly... boring out the engine to a larger displacement would be permanent.
I'm not sure what parts needs to be replaced or not yet... as I'm still working on getting the engine disassembled.

Unfortunately I'm having a difficult time finding a reputable Porsche machine shop that is willing to take my money to have my parts cleaned, machined, balanced, etc...

3.2 to 3.4 doesn't involve any boring. You buy another set of P and C and store your originals. Cylinders slip into case.

[Trakrat]

Originally Posted by Catorce

3.2 to 3.4 doesn't involve any boring. You buy another set of P and C and store your originals. Cylinders slip into case.

interesting... tell me more...
I'm guessing there is more to it than just dropping them in though...

[Trakrat]

Originally Posted by picinkoff

Try Ollies in AZ. They are well known and do a good job at a good price. I was happy with their work. They have a price list on their site.
Forgot to mention that it was for my '88 3.2.

Paul

You're the 3rd person to recommend them... definitely giving them a call!!!

[darrin]

Originally Posted by Trakrat

interesting... tell me more...
I'm guessing there is more to it than just dropping them in though...

not really, were you to increase displacement to 3.5, you need to machine the case to accept the bigger cylinders. However, bumping to 3.4 does not require any changes to the case -- it only requires boring the cylinders to accept bigger pistons (and buying bigger pistons). Only other mods would be a) more aggressive cams to take advantage of the additional displacement -- either re-grinding existing cams or buying a new set, and b) chip tuning to best take advantage of added displacement (both things you seem to be already contemplating)

Additional power can be found (through additional advance, etc.) if you were to also twinplug (which would require modification to the heads). However, this isn't necessary if you go with "Max Moritz" style pistons, which are optimized for single plug use.

Again, if you're concerned about reverting to complete originality, seek out a second set of cylinders to bore, hold onto your original cylinders and pistons and you can rebuild back down to your original 3.2 --

[porschenut]

Originally Posted by Cevan

I'd think twice on the SSIs for a 3.2 engine. Not sure how you can increase performance with a smaller primary ID (35mm) than your exhaust ports (38mm).

Yep. SSI's were designed for 2.7 engines, but also work for 3.0. They aren't for 3.2 engines. However I think I read recently that someone is making stainless steel catless HE's with the 1 5/8" primaries necessary for the 3.2. It may have a been a thread here.

[porschenut]

Have you considered swapping in a 3.6 motor, preferably a vario from a 993 (approx 280 bhp)? Total cost including installation may be less than rebuilding the 3.2. And you can store the original engine.