Barn Door MAF

[sf911]

I have a 3.2 and I am having trouble with the stock MAF . Is there a modern MAF that is a direct plug n play ?

[cmonref]

Search on user scarceller. He owns a 3.2 and has developed a true MAF -- not a 'barn door' type -- conversion with DME alterations that greatly enhances performance for 3.2 owners. The search will turn up his many posts on the BBS and several threads where other folks have installed his system.

[gamin]

I sent my 3.2 AFM to Bavarian Restoration. Noticeable performance improvements and looks better than new. BavRest.com or bavrest@gmail.com. Reasonable price too. Plug and play.

[Rodsrsr]

Originally Posted by sf911

I have a 3.2 and I am having trouble with the stock MAF . Is there a modern MAF that is a direct plug n play ?

The 3.2 uses an Air Flow meter, but as cmonref says search "scarceller" if you want a superior MAF that will truly make a difference. The AFM is antiquated technology and the only thing you'll get by rebuilding one is properly working antiquated technology. A tuned MAF however WILL make a huge difference.

[gamin]

Not everyone wants to pay 10 times the price for very little performance difference. It is nice
stuff though.

[sf911]

Thats what I was thinking Gary . I just want new technology and reliability . I,ve heard that there is a MAF for a Volvo that is plug n play for a 3.6 , I wonder if there is something similar for a 3.2 ?

[uwanna]

Originally Posted by sf911

Thats what I was thinking Gary . I just want new technology and reliability . I,ve heard that there is a MAF for a Volvo that is plug n play for a 3.6 , I wonder if there is something similar for a 3.2 ?

There's a German company that makes a MAF unit for the 3.6 and the
3.2 Carrera as well. I've been using their 3.6 unit on my 964 transplant motor in my '80SC and love it. Here's their webpage for the 3.2 offering. On my 3.6, they use an Alpha Romeo V6 MAF, not a Volvo. By the way, note their price includes 19%VAT which is not charged for export. Google Translate

Here's the thread on my experience with their MAF/AFM replacement.
I've been using it trouble free for the last three years and the motor
runs flawlessly and better than when it had the original AFM.
Several folks that posted on my thread ordered and installed a 3.2 unit, perhaps you could contact them for their experience.
Just installed a MAF intake kit on my 964/3.6 transplant motor. Simple & awesome!

[Quicksilver]

People have maligned the barn door AFM for years but it isn't a source of inefficiency on the 3.2l engine. Talk to the people who have worked on hundreds of these cars and they agree. (Bruce Anderson coined the term, "It is a cash flow device. Jerry Woods reported a 5hp loss with the AutoAuthority MAF. I recently spent a week with the owner of a major LA shop and when MAFs came up he volunteered that no one had one that was better than a barndoor.)

There have been a number of MAF conversion products and no one has had one that performs better than the original. The closest you can come to an improvement is when it comes with a chip to retune the engine but retuning would make comparable improvements in an AFM equipped engine (by narrowing the safety margins that Porsche built into their chip).

There are some conditions where I would expect an MAF to out perform the AFM. When you are dealing with major altitude changes such as climbing Pikes Peak an MAF should perform better. When the basic parameters of the engine have changed such as displacement, RPM range, compressed induction, etc and you would have to completely retune the engine anyway and that would put the MAF on equal footing and if you had a truly increased air flow requirement the MAF could be a clear winner.

Just don't go spending major money on an MAF expecting to find a magical source of horsepower that Porsche missed out on. They didn't screw up the intake.
(If you want "more" look at the exhaust. There is about 20 HP to be found there by ditching the stock exhaust.)

[uwanna]

Originally Posted by Quicksilver

People have maligned the barn door AFM for years but it isn't a source of inefficiency on the 3.2l engine. Talk to the people who have worked on hundreds of these cars and they agree. (Bruce Anderson coined the term, "It is a cash flow device. Jerry Woods reported a 5hp loss with the AutoAuthority MAF. I recently spent a week with the owner of a major LA shop and when MAFs came up he volunteered that no one had one that was better than a barndoor.)

There have been a number of MAF conversion products and no one has had one that performs better than the original. The closest you can come to an improvement is when it comes with a chip to retune the engine but retuning would make comparable improvements in an AFM equipped engine (by narrowing the safety margins that Porsche built into their chip).

There are some conditions where I would expect an MAF to out perform the AFM. When you are dealing with major altitude changes such as climbing Pikes Peak an MAF should perform better. When the basic parameters of the engine have changed such as displacement, RPM range, compressed induction, etc and you would have to completely retune the engine anyway and that would put the MAF on equal footing and if you had a truly increased air flow requirement the MAF could be a clear winner.

Just don't go spending major money on an MAF expecting to find a magical source of horsepower that Porsche missed out on. They didn't screw up the intake.
(If you want "more" look at the exhaust. There is about 20 HP to be found there by ditching the stock exhaust.)

I am very leery of taking advice from someone who has cobbled together a bunch of quotes
from other people and has had no first person experience with the situation themselves.
That said, I have had an excellent experience with the MAF update on my 964 3.6. The motor starts better, idles better, and part throttle acceleration is transformed. I can't speak about the 3.2 Carrera performance, but I assume it would be similar.

I never expected a "magical source of horsepower that Porsche missed out on" but wanted to eliminate problems with tracking wear of the AFM contacts on the resistive strip in the unit (a problem we all know happens on these 30+ year old units). The performance improvements I experienced were a bonus. As far as the AFM being just as good as a MAF, PAG sure thought it was an improvement when they when they UPGRADED the 993 to a MAF instead of the 964 AFM!

I will agree, there were some less then steller attempts early on in replacing the AFM with a MAF (AutoAuthority and others), but that was years ago and over the years some folks have improved and upgraded with a new approach.
Do a little searching on Scarcellers excellent MAF upgrade solution and the glowing reports from the folks who have used it.
In my world, first person experience trumps Googleing and posting a lot of quotes from other people from who knows how long ago.
Kinda like "the proof of the pudding is in the eating"
Just my $.02

[ClickClickBoom]

Originally Posted by uwanna

I am very leery of taking advice from someone who has cobbled together a bunch of quotes
from other people and has had no first person experience with the situation themselves.
That said, I have had an excellent experience with the MAF update on my 964 3.6. The motor starts better, idles better, and part throttle acceleration is transformed. I can't speak about the 3.2 Carrera performance, but I assume it would be similar.

I never expected a "magical source of horsepower that Porsche missed out on" but wanted to eliminate problems with tracking wear of the AFM contacts on the resistive strip in the unit (a problem we all know happens on these 30+ year old units). The performance improvements I experienced were a bonus. As far as the AFM being just as good as a MAF, PAG sure thought it was an improvement when they when they UPGRADED the 993 to a MAF instead of the 964 AFM!

I will agree, there were some less then steller attempts early on in replacing the AFM with a MAF (AutoAuthority and others), but that was years ago and over the years some folks have improved and upgraded with a new approach.
Do a little searching on Scarcellers excellent MAF upgrade solution and the glowing reports from the folks who have used it.
In my world, first person experience trumps Googleing and posting a lot of quotes from other people from who knows how long ago.
Kinda like "the proof of the pudding is in the eating"
Just my $.02

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[kuba_kuba]

@ClickClickBoom based on your comment about Steve W. I'm assuming that you are currently running the stock chip? I have (and love) the Steve W. chip but am thinking of adding the DME Shop MAF and don't know whether those two would be compatible... I'll send the question to 911Chips but thought I'd see if its already been proven to work.

[uwanna]

Originally Posted by kuba_kuba

@ClickClickBoom based on your comment about Steve W. I'm assuming that you are currently running the stock chip? I have (and love) the Steve W. chip but am thinking of adding the DME Shop MAF and don't know whether those two would be compatible... I'll send the question to 911Chips but thought I'd see if its already been proven to work.

Don't know about the 3.2 vs a 3.6, but I have an aftermarket performance chip in my 3.6 DME and it is perfectly compatible
with the DME Shop MAF unit. I don't think there should be any
problem as the DME Shop electronics just translate the MAF
digital voltage readings to resistive readings the DME can understand.

[ClickClickBoom]

Originally Posted by kuba_kuba

@ClickClickBoom based on your comment about Steve W. I'm assuming that you are currently running the stock chip? I have (and love) the Steve W. chip but am thinking of adding the DME Shop MAF and don't know whether those two would be compatible... I'll send the question to 911Chips but thought I'd see if its already been proven to work.

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[sf911]

Originally Posted by ClickClickBoom

Running Steves chip, with SSIs and the DME Shop set up, it runs really well. Totally happy! My car is my DD.

Could you share with us the Bosch part # of your MAF ? I will try to find out if I can buy the wiring harness . I am trying to rap my head around the price of over $1000.00 for a Bosch MAF that can't be worth more than 2 or 3 hundred and a wire with an electric gizmo spiced into the middle !

[uwanna]

Originally Posted by sf911

Could you share with us the Bosch part # of your MAF ? I will try to find out if I can buy the wiring harness . I am trying to rap my head around the price of over $1000.00 for a Bosch MAF that can't be worth more than 2 or 3 hundred and a wire with an electric gizmo spiced into the middle !

This is the magic piece that is wired into the wiring harness, it's also the piece that the developers spent a lot of money to design. Yes the unit is expensive and just has a Bosch MAF and a wiring harness with the magic circuit board in it, but just like a Steve W chip which goes for $350 or so and is just burned onto a $.50 chip, you are paying for the knowledge and design, not the basic components.

[ClickClickBoom]

Originally Posted by sf911

Could you share with us the Bosch part # of your MAF ? I will try to find out if I can buy the wiring harness . I am trying to rap my head around the price of over $1000.00 for a Bosch MAF that can't be worth more than 2 or 3 hundred and a wire with an electric gizmo spiced into the middle !

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[kuba_kuba]

Thanks! Looks like I know what's going on the Xmas wish list...