complete rebuild spreadsheet / tool estimator
 

Hi guys,

I'm looking into buying a 911 in a very bad shape for my next project and I'm hesitant at doing so just because I don't *really* know what i'm getting into. Actually I know I will take anywhere from 18-24 months to complete the re-build however I don't know what it will be like financially.

I was wondering if anyone here ad a predefined spreadsheet (or web based tool) that maps at a high level different components to the Pelican website for parts and costs. As an example, the spreadsheet would have the high level elements defined as:
- Exterior/body
- Interior
- Electrical
- Engine & tansmission
- Suspension

The user can select one or multiple elements (ex: suspension), the tool would map out ALL the suspension elements (torsion bar, bushings, tables, etc) and their associated part number and cost. The user could then have an easier task at estimating the work and cost at hand by picking and choosing which items in the suspension he wants to refurbish vs buy. Also, the user can order everything at once instead of putting multiple orders in the system.

I know this site has a similar feature for specific projects but I didn't find anything for a complete overhaul.

I know it's a long shot but i'm convinced i'm not the only one here obsessed with documenting things so anyone has gone through this exercise before?

Been there, doing that...

I will give you the short formula...

EXPENSE:

(Parts cost=5x amount anticipated + work hours X "Way more than I ever thought")X (unexpected expenses such as tools and bigger garage)

to the power of :

"realization I could have bought a new Porsche instead"

Divided by

"Hoped for astronomical appreciation and resale"


=

Lots of fun :)

Enjoy the journey

ok so should just order a new 2018 911T? lol, i'm really hesitant, in that case I might buy one that needs less work

It has been said that some going insane after doing the math,

Fixing a Porsche is like golfing, as long as you don't mind spending money paying for the experience its fun.

I "fixed" my first Porsche in college on a shoe string budget. By that, I mean I kept it running.

To properly "fix" or restore a Porsche that's in bad shape, figure 3-5 years of your life and lots of money (depends on skills, etc).

To help you decide if its for you, price parts. If its within your comfort zone, and you have the time, go for it.

Could be lots of fun...

I have an up to date spreadsheet for the machine work done on my 3.0L. It was intended as a tool to track initial quotes vs what was actually spent and to break the work up into rebuild "phases". I just sent out my last top end bits to get redone (rockers, idler arms, cams) so it is basically complete. PM your email and Ill shoot it over.

bpu699, that was very funny and mostly all true. There is a journey there, especially if you do it all yourself.

Also, there is bad shape, and then there is rusty bad shape.

This is dead nuts accurate.

I have something that will get you close. Shoot me a pm and I will email you a copy.

My advice is to buy the best never rusted low mileage 911 that you can find. Do not restrict yourself to "local". It will be the lowest cost in the end (by far).

I tried to rationalize the financial end of my project when I was starting. Once I got going I stopped tracking the money as I thought it would take away from the fun. I have a drawer full of Pelican and other receipts and one day I’ll add them up but not now. I can say the same as others - way more money and hugely more time than expected. This is a hobby for me so I’m keeping it simple and focusing on the fun part - the work.

I do not see how you can rebuild these cars for profit based on the initial cost plus parts and time vs increased value over a few years. That equation doesn’t add up so I just don’t do that math.

I purchased a used '87 coupe in May and have made significant progress on its restoration. My strategy is to get the car restored to perfect running condition then continually make cosmetic and performance changes. I've been keeping a tab on all the $ I've spent so far, and it's greatly exceeded my expected cost and I've not gotten to the engine yet. :-)

I have to admit I've learned a whole lot about air/oil cooled 911s and it has been a fun, but at times frustrating, journey thus far.

One other nugget of info that I learned after having owned many cars... some pristine, some not.

When I was younger, I wanted perfect cars. Clean, great paint, perfect everything. I would wax my car on weekends, drive on weekends, and never park it for fear of getting scratched or keyed. I was scared to drive my car.

I'm older now. I want my cars mechanically perfect. Cosmetics are less important.

There is an old saying that is true. Not driving and enjoying your car is like not having s*x with your wife/girlfriend and saving her for the next guy...

These cars are a hoot to drive. On the track they will put a huge smile on your face.

Just DRIVE them. Enjoy them. The nicer you make your car, the less likely you are to enjoy it...

Agreed! i have a '74 911 that i drive at every occasion I can. I have just stored it for the next 3 months since the regulation here in Quebec is to have winter tires from dec- march.

ok so back to the post, it's pretty much unanimous: initial estimate x5 :)

I got a few feed backs from forums and external quotes and a CS/2.7 engine rebuild isn't lower than $5k for a full rebuild... and can easily double. Transmissions are around $2500 for a rebuild assuming there aren't too many parts to change. So I think i'll do a x3 for the engine/transmission rebuild

I just wanted to clarify one thing however is that I wasn't hoping on making money necessarily (although it would be nice) but more planning and avoiding surprises. At this point, I'm really starting to re-think this and focus on finding a car that doesn't require so much work

+1 on been there and doing that.

You can check out my threads on the Engine Rebuild forum: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-engine-rebuilding-forum/934725-another-first-engine-drop-progress-follow.html
and my thread in this section. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/975559-1987-911-carrera-rebuilding-engine-suspension-brakes-more-come.html

It started out by learning that I had a couple of broken head studs, then I discovered that I have clutch and brake issues, and it just snowballed from there, and now I have the top end rebuilt with the whole engine cleaned up and bunch of parts replaced, I have all new brakes (rotors, calipers, brake lines, parking brakes etc), the entire suspension is rebuilt with all new bearings and bushings, and shocks installed, all re-usable parts are powder coated... and I am just starting on the body and interior.

The good news is that the body is in decent shape, but the jury is still out on how much of it will get painted, what I do with my targa roof etc..

In terms of prices for stuff, although I have all my receipts I have not added them up yet. It's sort of hard to budget this unless you know exactly what you want/need to do.

Have fun with it!

You are beginning to think in the correct direction, keep going in that direction (see my previous post). "Project" cars can be "fun" but they typically come with a large final price.

If you rebuild the motor yourself then 10k$ in parts, machine work, case work, fan upgrade, etc,etc is probably in the ball park. Figure about a year if you have all the tools and a compliant wife.

If you pay someone, figure 15-20k to do it all...

I bought my 930 eight years ago. Most winters large pieces of it are in pieces as it gets love. Last year was a roll bar and race seats. This year, a motor refresh... I have gotten to the point where I just enjoy the process, and try not to think about cost.

I have wanted a 930 since I was 8 years old. Drew one in all my school books. Made a wood sculpture of it in high school. Drooled overs it's shape since testosterone chewed it's way through my arteries. Whatever money Porsche spent on commercials in the 1980s has certainly worked... If you are of the same mindset, fixing a Porsche is fun... :)

I still remember this commercial as if I saw it today for the first time
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=k-gu9f7bH2E

Figure 10-15 weekends a year, 6 or so hours a weekend, and 8 plus years... I literally have over 1000+ hours into this car,and it isn't near perfect.

If I paid myself to work on the car what I get paid at work... Argh. No point in thinking about it.

If you love working on cars, Porsches are fun... But not cheap.

You can go on a website and buy a brand new Chevy v8 crate motor for what you spend on spend on gaskets and miscellaneous items for a motor rebuild on a Porsche...

^^^ or divorced if my wife ever sees the all the receipts for parts I throw into a BIG box in the garage. One day I will add them up but until then as others have stated- it's a hobby, an education and an awesome feeling when you get the car back on the road after working on it.

Minimum of 2x the budget for parts
4x the time forecasted
-50% return on investment
Smiles per mile once completed - priceless

OP, what 911 are you wanting to build?

In my experience, as an armature Porsche builder, the 2 big rules are to develope the plan and stick with it and to get the right tool for the job. Changing what you want the finished car mid build means re-dos and traveling off your budget. The right tools make the steps easier and the quality better. Plus, you can sell them for more when done. A third suggestion is don’t be afraid to hire professionals, be a protect manager. Insisting on doing everything yourself, even if it saves money, eats into the timeline and can end up costing more.

Oh, also, one of the most important tools is the workspace you have. Investing in renting an industrial spot can be worth it because crawling around on the garage floor really kills motivation.

Mapping & spreadsheet tool is a great idea '74. You should discuss it with Pelican. If I were PP Sales & Marketing... I'd be all over that.

Read through posts... some fine & interesting thoughts. My added two cents = car's history is good reference. Assuming it's accurate in large part, it helps tell the car's story. From that, and for someone who knows 911 componentry, it's possible to create a reasonable parts/budget & work plan.

I think I’m going to print this and frame it in my garage.

Rebuild Costs
 

Making the decision to go down this path is very exciting.
Trying to put together a detailed plan which includes costs, especially when this is your first time (like it was mine) - daunting....but that's what makes it fun!

I was a newbie when i started. Now i am a newbie with a lot of paperwork. :-)

I just completed a 18 month project and in my case my final bill tallied up to close to $100k. I am sure there are tons of smarter people who would be able to do this scope for much cheaper - and reading the forums, many folks do claim much lower costs, but i could not find a way. I researched like crazy, locally and internationally for close to 6 months - so i know that parts pricing wise i was not taken for a ride...and the 2 shops i used in Dallas who helped me with labor where i could not do it myself (either cos i didnt know how, or later cos i moved to NY and the car had to be finished), charged an avg $110 / hour.

I tried to do as much work as possible myself (except the suspension & engine which was done by William Knight with help from Dick Elverud). I made many mistakes - and learnt from them the easy and the hard (costly) way. I changed my mind several time wrt look of the car, or mechanical spec of the car...all in all meaning that most likely i wasted about $20-25k.

So, the biggest advice i can offer is: before you start anything - spend days, weeks reading (and re-reading) the forums here. Lots of smart people here. Lots of good detailed builds that you can learn from. Formulate a detailed picture of what your end goal is going to be and then start detailing it and then lock it in. I went a bit pedantic by classifying each critical component by categories i.e Interior, exterior, suspension, braking, frunk, trunk, engine, trans etc.. i even started weighing old part vs new part...Once your objective is clear - research parts, manufacturers etc...there are always 2-3 options for each part. Saving $10 or $100 here or there, adds up pretty quickly.

Try befriend someone on the forum or local porsche shop that can help with additional technical guidance.

All in all - a high-level costing breakdown for my build looked like this:

Body work + respray: 10k (added steel flares, sunroof delete, duck tail)
Interior: 10k (i spent initially 3k reupholstering OEM seats - only to spend additional 2k on Recaro XL bucket seats..and then carpets, rear parcel shelf delete, sound dampeneners - installed out of sight full stereo, only to take it out :-( )
Complete suspension: 10k
New CCW wheels + Tires: 5k
Complete engine rebuild + trans: 40k.
Other miscellaneous parts, tools, car shipping to shops etc: 5k
Labor / services by independent mechanics: $20k

All in all - it has been quite an experience.
Would i do it again? No. Many ups and downs during a project such as this. Many frustrating moments and in hindsight i wish i was even more educated (on engines for example) - that would have saved a lot of headaches. Resto-mods are not everyone's cup of tea, but this is my toy and i will fiddle and learn hopefully for many years to come. What about resale value - well, its not an original anymore and my engine is built and geared towards the track rather than DD or cruiser, but I am cautiously optimistic that having spent the most money on the most important elements: suspension, brake, engine, trans and having it custom built by folks such as William and Dick - will help me recoup my money if one day i chose to sell.

Anyways - good luck. Visualize the end goal, and it will all be worth it at the end.

This is my baby. Literally finished a week ago.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1512413297.jpg

I thought I was the only one that did that.

it's super nice! don't hesitate to post more picture: rear shot and inside

thanks for sharing!

Guide to how our engines work
 

oops - misplaced

Take a look at the link below, it's specifically designed for engine rebuilds and will populate the parts that you'll need. Please let us know if you have any questions!

Porsche 911 Engine Rebuild Wizard - Introduction