Looking for best way to test run 3.0 while out of the car ?

[antares]

Just looking for any or various ideas on how to go about running my 3.0 while it is out of the car … I'll have it sitting on it's SSI's on which rests on top of plywood that is fastened to my flat bed jack … So other than the obvious components and connections needed to run the engine for testing what are the best ways to actually securing the engine so it will not twist ( if that is a factor ) or will be stable enough to run the engine while adjusting and tweaking components … I am thinking my approach of allowing the engine to just set on top of my flat bed jack setup should be enough and this would be convenient as this is exactly how it came out from under the car on the engine drop … Or … do I need to disconnect the transmission or lift n hook the engine up onto an engine stand to be able to run it … ? Any ideas or input appreciated … - dave

[3literpwr]

This is an option Engine Test Stand for Air-cooled Porsche and VW

Was thinking about this myself, but didn't know if it was worth the effort just to hear my engine run. Also, there is the issue about starting a new engine without load.

[boyt911sc]

Originally Posted by 3literpwr

This is an option Engine Test Stand for Air-cooled Porsche and VW

Was thinking about this myself, but didn't know if it was worth the effort just to hear my engine run. Also, there is the issue about starting a new engine without load.

How could you test an newly rebuilt motor on a dyno or in your car if is not able to start at all. If you could not make it start or idle, how would you be able to do the break-in process? How many Porsche shops do you know that has an in-house dyno meter. My two-cents.

Tony

[onevoice]

It is surprising how little an engine will move if it doesn't have anything to resist its output. I have seen v8s running in a junkyard propped up with spare tires and not moving around at all. I built a run stand that I used to get an engine with new fuel injection running to test for leaks and to at least get a stable idle dialed in. I would support it by the engine mounts at least. Mine was a simple framework, on wheels, with fuel lines run into a five gallon bucket.

[Steam Driver]

A problem I see with running a 911 out of the car is the oiling system; you are going to have to have an oil tank, lines, etc. Not too practical to do unless you dyno a lot of dry sump engines. Wet sump engines are no problem. I have run several VW and Corvair engines “on the ground” with no problems. As someone said earlier with nothing particular to resist torque they just sit there. A rapid change in RPM will cause them to rotate a little, no doubt because of gyroscopic precession of the flywheel.

This is probably impossible with most engines (because one is generally required for the starter) but NEVER try to run an engine without a flywheel (or in the case of an aircraft engine a “club” propeller). Even at idle throttle they will pretty much spin to infinity and self-destruct before you can even think of shutting it off.

[antares]

… good points everyone … How about some photos of any setups anybody has constructed for this purpose ….

[inaminit]

Here is my homemade test stand, made from angle iron, on casters. It holds the engine rigidly, and converts to a flat table when not being used to hold an engine.

[al lkosmal]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=finbWiaFuPo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUkkDvsSpUA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TLyyYKXS1Y

my test stand.....
regards,
al

[antares]

So Inaminut just how do you go about supporting/suspending the engine while positioning the stand under it for hook up … excellent stands and interesting how you guys hook everything up too … I can weld and will do so if necessary but was hoping I could just run my engine setting on top top my plywood platform and possibly with two out riggers added for stability coming off the rear engine mounts down to the floor … that would keep it from twisting and I would not have to create another metal sculpture project taking up shop floor space … ?

[inaminit]

Raise the engine and trans (if together) with a spreader bar and a chainfall or an engine crane, and attach to the stand. If I ever get around to it, I will modify my stand to hold up the fan end of the engine with the engine mount cross piece like Al's. If you do not leave the trans on, you will have to rig up something to hold the starter in place. Also, get ahold of a 14 pin female plug with wires to mate with your engine plug. Then you can hook up the wires as needed.

[al lkosmal]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9GkQNoS3fY

this wee, little, 356 motor is just sitting on a piece of plywood on my test stand and is strapped down with ratchet straps........worked well...YRMV

regards,
al

[larrym]

done it - to test used motors i considered buying

- yes, you need an oil tank & lines so the oil circuit works as designed plus an appriopriate fuel pump connected to it

oh - and a way to bolt up the starter! - i use an old 901 trans case front half

(i still have the stuff used long ago - FS if interested - i will never ever want to do this again)

yes, it will sit on the exhaust headers & won't move around

- have also done it with type 4 914 motors sitting in the back of a pickup - but that's a different proposition

[antares]

…. found this on the tube where the guy has the motor sitting flat on a metal cart surface and fires it up …. To accommodate his oil supply it appears he has clamped on some angle iron to hold it in place and with leaving the transmission cross mount in place I suppose one could just install bolts through the mounts and secure it there … but this engine is not twisting even when he accelerates … not exactly sure about his break in technique but shouldn't the rpms be set high and consistent for a proper cam break in or perhaps he just did a reseal and valves perhaps ….

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdTEVIHzZVg

larrym send me a pm regarding the fuel pump if it is for a 79 3.0 or I suppose I could get a psi gauge and set it into spec that way ….

[T77911S]

not sure why you would want to run your engine outside of the car. "tweaking" a stock(?) 3.0?
you have mixture, idle and timing. not that much to tweak.
if you were building multiple engines, like tony perhaps, then I would build a stand with the proper setup. oil tank, pump, filter, starter adapter and so forth.

just seems like a lot to go thru just to tweak an engine one time.
the pump is another biggie. you have spare or are you pulling yours or buying one?

[antares]

Yeah perhaps a lot of stuff but … Well let's see … for one I have a CIS system with multiple crap components to deal with in a tight environment… I am dropping the engine to have easy total access in going through and testing all the CIS system components thereby eliminating lower back pain and cut forearms … with engine out of the car ... this will allow me to easily remove the cluster web of runners 4,5 & 6 which I cannot remove even with a partial drop or gain comfortable access to connections in the back of the fuel distributor or throttle body …while out for cleaning & installation of new injector inserts etc while also cleaning up engine and detailing .. in that process having the ability to run the engine and diagnose and deal with any potential component problems outside of the car before stuffing it back into that tight bay compartment I would think would be a benefit not a liability and if I can easily accomplish that all the better … if not then I can always just pump the engine back in the car and hope the CIS is good to go with fingers crossed … I have an spare oil tank and I could just pull my fuel pump and rig up some hoses … I am now considering doing this since I have seen the video listed above running an engine on SSI's on top of a flat table … I would most likely bolt my transmission mount to my plywood top for any rotational insurances and have a go at it ...

[boyt911sc]

Antares,

I have this made basically for CIS troubleshooting. This is more than 20 years old now and I am getting attached to it. I would have stopped doing CIS troubleshooting many years ago if I did not have access to an engine test stand. My new test stand (under construction) will look much better than this contraption.





Tony

[T77911S]

just do what I did.
remove the components you want to test. most are vacuum parts and you are looking for vacuum leaks. get a hand vac and pull vacuums on the parts to check for leaks.
you can test the AAR easily out of the car. replace vacuum hoses. if you really want to be productive remove the CIS and replace the injector seals, Orings and the rubber boots on the runners. have the injectors cleaned and tested. you could have the fuel dist rebuilt or take a chance there are no issues with it. (don't know the running condition before removed).
do a valve adjustment.
check head bolts
you can even remove the engine shroud and check for debris/rats nests
address any oil leaks. the triangle of death is a big one. you could even replace the oil Tstat if you don't want to risk having to do it with the engine in the car, which I have done.
put it back in and do fuel pressure checks
start it
set timing
set mixture

oh, pull a vacuum on the brake booster hose and booster while the engine is out.

no need to run it out of the car. this is really something engine builders do that rebuild an engine and run it before sending it back to a customer.

you could have the alt rebuilt, paint the engine shroud, powder coat the valve covers, powder coat the engine tin.

[49willard]

As a general statement, test running an engine prior to installation in a vehicle is a smart way to go. Problems are much easier to diagnose and fix with the access you have on a stand. I have a good friend that has been an engine builder for 40 years. He has a engine dyno and he dyno's most engines. The primary reason that he dyno's is to prove to himself and therefore to the customer that the engine was good leaving his shop. The performance data is just icing on the cake. As an example, when I dyno'ed one of my non P car engine I found 2 items that were easy to fix with the engine out. I am currently restoring an M car. After building the engine, I set it up on a test stand that I fabricated. It is currently stored on the roll around stand waiting for assembly into the chassis.

[ChrisBennet]

An engine dyno lets you break in a motor. An engine test stand doesn't (you need a load). You really only have a small window of time to break in the motor.

[tomdeg]

I think it's a great idea. Nothing worse than having to fix oil leaks in the car on that freshly resealed engine.