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Need a schooling on HE vs Headers for a 3.2

The 3.2 I recently bought did not come with an exhaust system so I have some decisions to make. I am in SoCal, and the car gets used for touring events so it will see weather (that will be pretty modest still, not freezing etc). Car needs to be livable, does not need to pass SMOG.

I was hoping to get a crash course in if headers make a worthwhile difference, if so which ones? Are there HE that are close to the same power and provide heat / defrost? What sizing for a Ď88 3.2? Thick vs thin flange?

Total exhaust newbie here....


Thanks!
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1967 912 (now w/ 50% few random holes in it)
911 w/ 3.2 (ugly but kinda fast)
1974 914 (3.2L swap underway)
1984 928s (with S4 engine and suspension)
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Old 03-11-2018, 06:28 AM
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Good thread (but $$$$).
Bigger "SSI" system
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Old 03-11-2018, 07:00 AM
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For a stock 3.2 you can run original SSI HE. There's data that supports it being a good match. I believe your Carrera will have the shorter studs, so thin flange. Simply measure your studs coming out off the exhaust portion of the heads under the car.

Some clearance issues can develop. I think on the right side header, you may have to dent the heat box on the header to clear the chain box. Sometimes you have to make an adjustment to clear the helper spring on the trans as well.

That's going to be your best bang for the buck imho. If you go bigger with a stock 3.2 you could actually lose power.

If you go aftermarket, there are quality headers like Georges, or cheap chinese headers like QSC. You can get them in any size you need. There are also high end heat exchangers like billy boat and fabspeed.

FWIW I live in Vegas, and I still use my heat all the time for those cool morning runs in winter, late fall and early spring.
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Last edited by 75 911s; 03-11-2018 at 07:19 AM..
Old 03-11-2018, 07:17 AM
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Thanks gentlemen
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1967 912 (now w/ 50% few random holes in it)
911 w/ 3.2 (ugly but kinda fast)
1974 914 (3.2L swap underway)
1984 928s (with S4 engine and suspension)
1987 928S4
Old 03-11-2018, 07:34 AM
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Stay tuned...

New Prototypes in Testing
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Old 03-11-2018, 08:29 AM
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Interesting!
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1967 912 (now w/ 50% few random holes in it)
911 w/ 3.2 (ugly but kinda fast)
1974 914 (3.2L swap underway)
1984 928s (with S4 engine and suspension)
1987 928S4
Old 03-11-2018, 08:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tdskip View Post
The 3.2 I recently bought did not come with an exhaust system so I have some decisions to make. I am in SoCal, and the car gets used for touring events so it will see weather (that will be pretty modest still, not freezing etc). Car needs to be livable, does not need to pass SMOG.

I was hoping to get a crash course in if headers make a worthwhile difference, if so which ones? Are there HE that are close to the same power and provide heat / defrost? What sizing for a Ď88 3.2? Thick vs thin flange?

Total exhaust newbie here....


Thanks!
'88 uses the long 30mm studs oe, so thick flange unless you change the studs or pack w/ shims

SSI are only 1 3/8"ID (~35mm)' 1 1/2" OD, this is fine for smaller engines or lower rpm use, they will not flow well enough for full hp at higher rpms. They will enhance torque at lower rpm.

The Eisenmann 42mm SSI copies referenced in the thread above are probably the best currently available for a 3.2 or 3.4

Less money would be B&B or Fabspeed 1 5//8" headers, but it's more difficult to put a good muffler on these.

1 3/4" headers are too big for 3.2

W/ a muffled system you don't get the full benefit of tuned headers anyway so another decent choice might be stock 964 w/ 37mm pipes or 993 which are ~42mm. Again these will be more of an issue to get a decent muffler on.
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Old 03-11-2018, 12:10 PM
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Thanks Bill, very helpful.
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1967 912 (now w/ 50% few random holes in it)
911 w/ 3.2 (ugly but kinda fast)
1974 914 (3.2L swap underway)
1984 928s (with S4 engine and suspension)
1987 928S4
Old 03-11-2018, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonny H View Post
For a moment there... I thought you were developing optimal 3.2 headers.
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Old 03-12-2018, 07:08 PM
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JP/Dansk are making 41 or 42mm OD SSIs, tagged as Under Development in their catalogue.
Old 03-12-2018, 10:56 PM
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I think they have been under development for a couple of years at least!

After reading about a million posts, of which about 99% were found to be factually deficient, I ended up ordering a set of http://www.bbexhaust.com/shop/porsche-911-header-with-heat-exchanger-fpor-0401/ with 1 5/8" primaries so I can use a 2 in/1 out Dansk motorsport muffler. I know I will need to use spacers under the exhaust stud nuts since I will continue to use the longer 3.2 exhaust studs. I hope I don't also need to make 20mm spacers to go between the header secondary flanges and the muffler inlet flanges but will if I have to.

From the believable sources it appears the standard 3.2 headers work really well if the muffler and cat are replaced with freer flowing units and are really very competitive with the more expensive street exhaust alternatives on any objective measure.

If you're interested in sound info on 3.2 street systems, suggest you keep your eye out for posts from Steve Wong, Bill Verburg and scarceller. For example: What can I expect - 3.2 w/exhaust and chip

Last edited by Peter M; 03-13-2018 at 01:34 AM..
Old 03-13-2018, 12:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter M View Post
I think they have been under development for a couple of years at least!

After reading about a million posts, of which about 99% were found to be factually deficient, I ended up ordering a set of http://www.bbexhaust.com/shop/porsche-911-header-with-heat-exchanger-fpor-0401/ with 1 5/8" primaries so I can use a 2 in/1 out Dansk motorsport muffler. I know I will need to use spacers under the exhaust stud nuts since I will continue to use the longer 3.2 exhaust studs. I hope I don't also need to make 20mm spacers to go between the header secondary flanges and the muffler inlet flanges but will if I have to.

From the believable sources it appears the standard 3.2 headers work really well if the muffler and cat are replaced with freer flowing units and are really very competitive with the more expensive street exhaust alternatives on any objective measure.

If you're interested in sound info on 3.2 street systems, suggest you keep your eye out for posts from Steve Wong, Bill Verburg and scarceller. For example: What can I expect - 3.2 w/exhaust and chip
Those B&B's are new, did you contact them for the sizing info? I can't find it on the site.

Interesting that they don't tout the compatibility w/ stock 911 2 in mufflers, That has always been the major drawback of the B&B headers.
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Old 03-13-2018, 07:00 AM
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B&B and Eisenmann - neither use (or offer?) thick flanges. Are they still deemed required on a 3.2 up?
Old 03-13-2018, 07:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sp_cs View Post
B&B and Eisenmann - neither use (or offer?) thick flanges. Are they still deemed required on a 3.2 up?
No, thin flange can be used on any 911. You just need to either change the studs to shorter ones(likely necessary anyway) or live w/ the long stud shaft prouder than usual
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Old 03-13-2018, 08:40 AM
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Thanks - why do thick flanges exist?
Sorry slight OT
Old 03-13-2018, 09:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Verburg View Post
Those B&B's are new, did you contact them for the sizing info? I can't find it on the site.

Interesting that they don't tout the compatibility w/ stock 911 2 in mufflers, That has always been the major drawback of the B&B headers.
Bill,
Yes, the BBE site isn't the easiest to navigate and that's why I included a link. I contacted them directly to confirm they were the 1 5/8" primary tube size I wanted. I suspect they have made them for many many years but never promoted them as being suitable for 3.2's because of the flange thickness issue.

I've only found one other on this forum who has installed these on a 3.2 using the generic 2 in muffler and this is the reason why I steered away from their normal 3.2 headers as I didn't want to use their propriety mufflers with the odd spaced 3 bolt mounting flange inlets. He didn't have to use adaptors spacers to fit his muffler so I hope I'm the same.

I will confirm the wisdom of my purchase when they finally turn up and I can trial fit them.

Thanks for your help BTW through your earlier posts on this topic.

Last edited by Peter M; 03-13-2018 at 12:22 PM..
Old 03-13-2018, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sp_cs View Post
B&B and Eisenmann - neither use (or offer?) thick flanges. Are they still deemed required on a 3.2 up?
They both offer thick and thin flange options. Usually described as fitting "3.2" and "SC" models respectively on their websites.

The Eisenmanns look the perfect solution but they are eye wateringly expensive where I live and I couldn't find any reliable data on hp gains so shied away from them.

Last edited by Peter M; 03-13-2018 at 12:24 PM..
Old 03-13-2018, 12:14 PM
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I think this should be noted as going in 914-6 so exhaust options are limited to stock, mine, and b&b and not sure if anyone else is in the game?

I prefer a 1.625 header sizing for a 3.2 engine and stock is 1.5"

Here is a picture of my product.. Just want to make sure correct info is being relayed to the poster.
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Old 03-13-2018, 01:41 PM
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Interesting. - I see INd Dist are marketing a 45mm option?
https://ind-distribution.com/product?sku=P91130.WT38
Old 03-13-2018, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter M View Post
They both offer thick and thin flange options. Usually described as fitting "3.2" and "SC" models respectively
The Eisenmann both look thin flange from the pics Iíve seen, certainly not same as ssi thick flange
Old 03-13-2018, 03:15 PM
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