SC RoW Backdate / Hot Rod Project
 

Yeah... Another one! I'm sure everyone is tired of seeing them, but I'm about to tackle my own 3.6 RS Styled backdate. I was born near Stuttgart and grew up watching Porsche's roll out of the factory and had the goal of owning one since. I've never been a purist, so I won't be extremely concerned about my car being 100% accurate. My current daily driver is an LS6 swapped E36 if that tells you anything. My goal is a light(er) weight 911 with 260+ HP that is built for back road driving with some autocross and a few track days a year thrown in.

The P/O has owned the car since the 80's and had the car imported from Germany after he returned from deployment. During his ownership, he only put 50k miles on the car but it was.I purchased the car in April 2017 in "ran when parked" condition. He did have the oil changed yearly and the car state inspected, which meant it should be ready to start and drive or at least very close to it. I spent 2 full days with a power washer just getting the moss, dirt, and debris. I threw a new battery in and found the ignition switch to be faulty. I ordered Bilstein club sport struts , sway-away torsion bars, re71's all the way around, factory short shifter, Racetech rt1000 seats and hit the road. After driving it for about a month, I signed up for a track day. I figured I'd do a Valve adjustment on the car and hit the track. Upon removing the valve covers, I found 6 or 7 broken head studs and decided the car was ready for at least a re-seal. One thing led to another and I ended up splitting the case and doing a rebuild. Everything was in GREAT condition as I expected based on the mileage and the previous owner.

After the rebuild, I drove the car for a few months including a trip to the Dragon in Tennesse and it was a BLAST. The car was quick, but after 5k miles or so, I decided the car lacked something and I was starting to get the itch to build another car (90% percent of the fun.) That brings us to where we are today. I pulled the 3.0 near the end of 2017 and sold it to Sean (911sauCy) on here, who has a lighter 78 Targa. We had leak down test done, compression test, and I tossed it on the dyno. It made 186 hp and 188 tq on a NASA certified Dynojet Dyno. At that point, I started to doubt selling the motor. Is it worth it? 15k-20k+ for about 70 hp? Do I need it? Well, the honest answer was no. I don't NEED it, but sometimes we all do things we don't need.

So the search began and I located a 3.6. I sent a deposit and should be getting the motor within the next month. The plan for the motor is a full teardown/rebuild. The bottom end will stay stock. The heads have already been machined to accept a head gasket and will be held down with Supertec head studs. The only other thing set in stone is EVMS stand alone. This is the part where I need some help, what is the best way to make more power? I originally planned on doing the DC21 cam with springs/retainers from Dougherty Racing and a tune. I considered upgrading the valves to the RS size but that seems to have slim gains and is better for the 3.8. PMO's aren't out of the question, but I don't have to do those "while I'm in there." I'll keep reading on the subject, but I would really love a 100hp jump from the 3.0 without selling my house to fund it. The goal is 280, but I will be satisfied with 260 at the wheels.

The 915 transmission will be getting a rebuild that includes; all new synchros, dog teeth, and slider sleeves. Aftermarket parts will consist of a single piece bearing retainer, stronger side covers with turbo bearings, and a KAAZ LSD (no need for Guard, can use the money elsewhere.)

Interior will be a basic black "RS Style" carpet and door cards and I'll have the dash rebuilt. It will also get a functional roll bar/harness bar that will be fabricated by a local shop with 6 point harnesses.

Everything will be done in-house by me and one of my technicians except for paint prep/paint and the roll cage.

Suspension - I haven't fully decided on yet. I will keep the setup I have for the time being and work from there. Will probably need a bigger brake but I will try some better pads and see how effective they are.

Wheels - I will be stepping the RS' up to at least 17" and running appropriate tires for the power levels.

The goal is to have it more or less complete by my birthday next July. I would love to get the 3.6 running and driving before the end of the year this year while I source all the body parts.

Here is a link to my original E36 build to hold you over before the progress begins here.



yahh's LS Swap

Here are some photos from the purchase all the way to its current state.


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* Dyno picture is a Video

Subscribed, if you haven’t already, check out the Rattler next time you’re down in NC.

I hadn't heard of that when we did it. Seems like it would be a fun road to shake it down on. The back of the dragon in Tazewell was also very fun; however, it can get a little sketchy!

Winter time is approaching which means build time is coming! I haven't had many updates but the motor has arrived! It was delivered sometime mid-June and sat in the crate for a few months. I opened it up and started going through everything I have last month. During that time, I actually discovered that it isn't a 964 3.6 but instead it's from a 95 993 with 964 accessories! I put up a WTB thread looking for a VarioRam setup and finally located and purchased an entire setup yesterday. The final setup is looking like it will be a fully rebuilt 3.6 (stock spec using OE parts) with a DC21 Cam/Adjustable rocker arms/ Spring set from John over at Dougherty and VRam powered by VEMS. I still haven't decided if I'm going to source 993 H/E or if I'm going to run headers, but it will be mated to an M&k Exhaust.

Let me know if anyone needs 964 parts. Entire exhaust and top end (manifold etc) will be for sale/are for sale.

Now time to break the motor down and get it over to the machine shop.


https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1828/...21d36ca7_c.jpg3.6 Engine by yahh-, on Flickr
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Curious why you would not go with itb's and ecu?

What are the benefits?

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VarioRam setup came in on Tuesday. The motor will be going on the stand this month to get everything apart and out to the machine shop and see what needs to be ordered. The goal is to have the car road worthy by June 1st 2019. That's just going to be the rebuilt 3.6 and refreshed/upgraded transmission. The car is still going to look rough, but it should drive well and honestly that's all I care about. The RS backdate is at least a year out if not a bit longer.

You should reconsider doing a backdate on that car. It has a very cool look as-is. I do believe your approach (mechanicals first) is wise. You'll get enjoyment out of driving the car without having to worry about chips and scratches in the paint!

Edit: Make sure you go through the whole varioram system to make sure it's functioning properly.

You know what they say about opinions... Gonna share it anyway. I agree with Kaefer. I wouldn't go backdating that car either. Looks great as it is.

It is a good looking car, and sounds like it will scoot nicely when you finish the engine. I'd only suggest you reconsider the 17" wheel choice. IMO, they look oversized on these cars. There are plenty of tire choices in 16", and they seem to have a more balanced look. I think this is particularly true of long hood or backdated cars. Out here in SoCal, 15" and 16" wheels are the normal choice among most hot rodded or sporting cars. Just something to consider.

I would like to stay 16" but tire sizes seem very limited especially in aggressive street tires such as the rivals, re71, star spec, rs4, etc. Here is every 16" size listed on TireRack's website : 16" Tires. I'm currently running 245 and 225 RE-11's and would like to bump up to at least 265 in the rear.

I agree with the no backdate.. But 17's can be cool as heck! Yet another opinion haha! And yeas the tire sizes are more plentiful...I have some RS's and would love to rebarrel them with some wide 17's
Just never made it that far into finding a vendor to rebarrel em.

Hi Yahh.
Good luck with the build. I’ve travelled a very similar path to you.
I had a 3.0, then changed over to a 3.6 that was rebuilt with Supertec headstuds, cup cams, titanium valve spring retainers, upgraded valve springs, new lighter rods, CP Pistons, ITBs etc etc.
I was going to use VEMS, but went in a different direction. I have a brand new VEMS ecu that has never been installed if you haven’t got yours yet.
I look forward to seeing your updates

good luck with build. as im building an 81 targa.

SmileWavy good luck man!

Looks like you have lots of things to do. Good luck and keep us posted.

I wouldn't backdate. Too cool as it is! And plenty of ways to lighten it up.

It's been a year and 3 months since I have driven the car and I'm finally getting back on track with the build. I've ordered all the bottom end parts and I'll be splitting the case in a few weeks. Decided to go with a DC21 cam with a spring package from Dougherty Racing Camshafts and we will be going with PMO's with the AEM stand alone so the VarioRam setup is for sale. Hoping to have the car running within the next 3 months before my 27th birthday in July!

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I sold my LS E36M3 to buy my SC.
Super cool build plan. Can't wait to see it come along.

on your 3.0 dyno graphs, what was changed between red line and green lines?

If you want a new look why not an SCRS.....new bumpers sans the bellows etc...and it also lightens greatly...you could also lose the sunroof for a cleaner look.

Backdating to me, simply my opinion, is a fake car. Take what you have and be proud of it...find a period for that style that appeals and make it that...the same genre....

If you have to say when showing your car.....it's not a real long hood....

Nitrous, ha! The wooden plate behind the gas pedal was falling apart and wasn't allowing me to WOT. took a chunk of it out and boom extra power:D


It's actually a non-sunroof Euro car! I'm pretty set on the backdate as I love the way it looks. It's not going to be stickered up with RSR logos or anything like that. I just want a nice (fast) liquid silver backdate with black RS style interior.

1. I LOL'd at 'Nitrous'
2. It's so important to know what you want. These builds are hard enough without changing direction once, or many times, during the build. A clear vision is among the most important resources for a builder/hobbyist.
3. I'm jealous your ROW SC came a slicktop. I had to rid myself of that wretched sunroof and I'd have rather been doing engine or suspension stuff.

I mean, I ran a 150 shot on my LS in my E36 in case I ever felt like throwing myself out of the rear windshield :D

I've already done it like 5 times, the only thing that has stayed consistent is the backdate. I went from 964 top end, to VRAM, and now its PMO'S and AEM stand alone. I'm still thinking silver with black accents, but I may go black with silver/machined metal accents. I will cross that bridge when I get closer to it.

My LSM3 only made 350whp. I can't imagine a 150 shot on top. woof!

Oddly, my engine plan for my 911 has only changed once...and that is more of a timing thing than a total shift in plans.
The body and interior tho...the project is kind of directing where I'll end up.

I was near 420 at the wheels. AI Ported 243's, 228/232 cam on an LS6 with a GTO T56 and 3.91 rear.


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The major parts have been ordered for the build, the excitement is getting surreal! Should be about 4-6 weeks until everything is here and then the work begins.

Ordered:
Dougherty Racing DC 21 cam
M&K RSR Exhaust for 993 Manifolds
Rasant GT3 Plenum ITB Kit w/ AEM Standalone + Swap Harness
RSR Backdate Body Panels
LSD, Billet Side Cover, and Retainer
PMS Flywheel, Fuel Setup, Cam Block off plates, Single Pulley Setup, and RSR Oil cooler


All of my body old panels are officially for sale. Hood, both fenders, SC flares, Ducktail, front and rear bumpers.

I'll post more pictures once they're off. Taking all offers on those parts.

Anyone having issues getting their parts from DRCamshafts? I ordered my setup on April 23rd and was told on 6/20 that the Cam and Springs were ready to go, but the rockers weren't ready. Then on 8/5 I was told that "the job will be shipped right away" and haven't heard from him since. Getting a bit frustrated as I want to get this thing going!



Still waiting on:
Rasant GT3 Plenum ITB Kit w/ AEM Standalone + Swap Harness (expected in the next 2 weeks)
Billet Side Cover, and Retainer ( expected next week)

I just went through this with DRC.
I sent my cams in late April as well, but didn't send rockers or springs. Just my cams for regrind.
He is forever backed up with work, notorious for terrible communication, and recently had to move his shop on short notice. I was a squeaky wheel and got my cams July 22. I sent emails and left voicemails and was a real PITA after I got the run-around on when my parts would be done.

John Reached out to me and said the cams/springs/rockers are shipping out this week.

I'm also thinking about ditching a few of the FG parts. I already have turbo rear quarters and front fenders, thinking about getting the metal boxes and adding them to the 930 fenders. I got so stuck on weight and I want to be able to enjoy and drive this car often without having to constantly worry about it.

funny. that was my first thaugt. why go wider?!
stay turbo. nothing more classy than turbo (or ST) when going wide.
not that you end up RWB :D

If you haven't already done so, think about at least updating the rod bolts, it looks as if you will want to run a little more revs tha stock. If you were raising the rev limit a lot I'd go to a GT3 crank and custom rods along w/ a Gt3 oil pump.

proposed transmission works looks to be right

I'd go w/ at least 17s maybe 18s. Tire choice in 16 is very limited and the best currently available size is 225/45 on 8 & 245/45 on a 9, You really don't want taller tires than 225/50x16. For 17s the sweet spot is 225/45 & 255/40, for 18s 245/35 & 285/30

I'd also highly recommend lighter bumpers and spoilers, Taking weight out of the ends of the car is huge.

Any recommendations on what bolts? ARP has always been my go-to in the past.

Bumpers and spoilers will be Fiberglass

I read this on Instant G's website, how accurate is this information? My motor is from a 95 993.

-On 964 engines it’s wise to replace the factory rod bolts with ARP or 993. The stretch bolts are prone to failure.
-Both 993 and ARP rod bolts are designed to be reusable and are not torqued to yield (google it).
-993 factory rod bolts are good bolts. They supersede to 996, from the 996 twin-turbo but it’s the same design.

To get DRC to ship your parts, you must vent about it here, then they just show up. I'm sure the dude is swamped, but I waited almost 9 months for parts.

He answered the phone on Monday and said that I would see the parts by the end of the week, let's see how that goes.

I haven't touched anything on the car in a few months as we purchased a new home and took a while to get settled. Finally packed up the motor and transmission and brought it over to the shop to start some work. We got the engine fully dissembled and parts over to the machine shop and the transmission broken down to see what parts are needed for it.

Enjoy!
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Loaded up for the machine shop to get the works. Cleaning, machining any surfaces that need it, checking crank, case, rods, pistons, and a full valve job with the upgraded springs and retainers.

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Then it was time for the transmission to hit the stand. I've rebuilt 6 motors but I've never rebuilt a transmission so I was a little scared. It is after all just nuts and bolts right? Ordered all the parts today except for the reverse gear set. If anyone has one, pm me please.

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Trans parts came in today, just waiting on the reverse gear set to show up and the trans will be going back together.

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