Freshly rebuilt engine leaking lots of oil

[wanabe911 owner]

1974 914 originally a 1.8
New P&C
Crank
Rods
heads redone

Picked up my car from shop 2/10/22

Have driven it less than 100 miles

I was driving it Saturday just trying to make a list to sort out everything it needs and I noticed the oil light flicker a bit after a very hard panic stop to test the brakes.

I immediately shut it down.

Looked under the car and saw fresh oil on the ground.

Started it up and noticed oil dripping from between the transmission and the engine.

Rear main? Oil galley plugs?

Put the car on ramps, started it up and you can see the oil dripping down from the little window and around the joint between the tranny and engine.

Took video, cant post it here.
Very very upset.

[wanabe911 owner]

Try again

[930cabman]

Or the cam plug, any option requires separating the engine from the trans. Keep us updated.

[Dave at Pelican Parts]

Agreed. Time to pull the trans off the engine, then the flywheel, and then evaluate where the leak is coming from.

--DD

[tonythetarga]

Went through this with my rebuild on my project 914 1.7.
Things to check:
New ‘O’ ring in flywheel.
End play shimming for crank.
RMS
Felt seal
Galley plugs.
Cam plug.
Cases properly sealed.
I had my engine out 3 times chasing this. Turned out to be the cam plug.

[wanabe911 owner]

Would the oil light flickering lead anyone to think its one thing or the other? I have the car on stands in the carport. I am going to search for instructions for removing the trans on the site. This will be my first time Lol...

[Dave at Pelican Parts]

A flickering oil light means low pressure. It is not uncommon in worn engines to see the light flicker a little at low idle when the engine is fully warmed up. I believe the manual claims this is normal, but to me it indicates a fair bit of wear to the bottom end of the motor.

I have had the light come on under braking when I was 1 quart low on oil, and in cornering in a longer sweeping turn at an autoX.

Could be any of these, a combination of them, or even something else.

--DD

[tonythetarga]

+1 with Dave. The leak and flickering light are two items for repair. The leak alone shouldn’t cause the light to go on unless you lost sufficient quantity to warrant a low oil warning.

[John Rogers]

Well might be able to help some here. Did the shop give you a detailed list of all that was done WITH ALL the measurements they took when rebuilding the engine? They should have but it may have been a shop that just slapped parts together and let things sit where they may? Otherwise it might be too much crank end play or cam shaft end play and the seal(s) may have been blown. At any rate you will have to pull the transmission, clutch and flywheel to fix things. To help with that, break out the welder or some means to fasten a "U" bolt to the car beside the rear of the engine so you can then fasten a chain across the bottom of the engine to support it when the trans comes off. Then disconnect the battery since the starter has to come off and you do not want hot wires dangling under there.

Do you have an impact wrench either a Harbor Freight battery one or a pneumatic airline one since that is the best way to loosen everything. Do you have a floor jack that can reach and support the transmission to roll it "aft" to clear the input shaft, otherwise get one. Do you have a new clutch cable since it has to be unhooked so might as well replace it if it is over a couple years old. Do you have a clutch alignment tool as you'll need one when the clutch goes back in. Do you have a set of flywheel bolts (they are special) and a torque wrench since you should NEVER reuse them!!! Do you have one of those large metal drip pans (mine is 4 x 8 feet), you'll need one. Lastly, I hope you have sockets, extensions and wrenches to allow disassembly easily?

There is a step by step in the Haynes 914 manual, you have one I hope, that covers the order to do all the things to get into the seal areas. At the race track I have swapped transmissions in about 2 hours total with a helper but of course I was a lot younger in my racing days, we also have replaced clutch cables in an hour which is what the 914-4 or 914-6 were designed to be able to do once you see how easy it is and the steps needed to do things.

The main order of things is:
- Jack up the car and set it on stands.
- Disconnect the battery.
- Disconnect the starter wires, remove the starter.
- Support the rear of the engine, NO jack, either a chain as I mentioned or stand.
- Disconnect clutch cable, tie it out of the way.
- Disconnect both axles, tie them up. You can remove both rear wheels to give more room, but I always left them on just in case!
- Loosen then remove the speedo cable connection, tie cable end out of the way.
- Remove muffler, plug the exhaust openings with shop rags.
- Support the transmission with a jack.
- Loosen then after checking all is okay, pull trans mount bolts.
- Slightly lower the rear of the transmission.....just slightly.
- Make sure the engine is okay and nothing is hitting a firewall then loosen bottom then top transmission mount bolts and pull transmission back slightly, if all feels smooth then remove all 4 bolts and slide trans back then lower it out of the way.
- Remove bell housing bolts then pull that chunk of alloy out of the way.
- Look at the inside for oil, ETC, if it is running down from behind the flywheel then pull the clutch pressure plate, disk then flywheel.
- Replace the seal for the crank if needed.
- Reassembly is the opposite of disassembly. Remember DO NO REUSE FLYWHEEL BOLTS as then there is as good chance they will snap. I had that happen on my 2.8L big four and it cost me a race at Willow Springs and the mechanic that worked my car his job and he got black listed!

Did all that sound about right Dave? It has been a while for me and I am getting old
John

[jess p]

The only thing I have to say about this is when you want something done right, do it yourself.

[wanabe911 owner]

I don’t know if anyone has ever posted this, but this is by far the best, most helpful, most respectful online forum on the internet. The members are super knowledgeable and always willing to help.
With that being said, the shop that did the work have not yet responded to my calls for help. I don’t know what they did or didn’t do.
I picked the car up and it seemed to be running well and not leaking anything. The mechanic that worked on my car is someone who has been working on my cars for 15 years or so. He consulted with a local guru of Porsche engines who reportedly raced a 914 at Daytona back in the day (914-4 ) This expert which I have heard of before suggested what parts to use and what tricks he knows to make a nice reliable street engine. That’s all I know.
My mechanic is not answering his cell and the shop he was at has another name on the door and they told me yesterday that I’m not the only one looking for him.

This is all on me. I should have known better. Hindsight is always 20/20. Paid him $6000.

I have tools and a couple of jacks and have wrenched on varios cars through the years. Even changed a clutch in a auto parts parking lot 25 years ago.

Not sure I want or can do that again. I’m going to inventory what I have and see what I do next.

You guys are awesome!

Nobody in Miami?

[wanabe911 owner]

Originally Posted by John Rogers

Well might be able to help some here. Did the shop give you a detailed list of all that was done WITH ALL the measurements they took when rebuilding the engine? They should have but it may have been a shop that just slapped parts together and let things sit where they may? Otherwise it might be too much crank end play or cam shaft end play and the seal(s) may have been blown. At any rate you will have to pull the transmission, clutch and flywheel to fix things. To help with that, break out the welder or some means to fasten a "U" bolt to the car beside the rear of the engine so you can then fasten a chain across the bottom of the engine to support it when the trans comes off. Then disconnect the battery since the starter has to come off and you do not want hot wires dangling under there.

Do you have an impact wrench either a Harbor Freight battery one or a pneumatic airline one since that is the best way to loosen everything. Do you have a floor jack that can reach and support the transmission to roll it "aft" to clear the input shaft, otherwise get one. Do you have a new clutch cable since it has to be unhooked so might as well replace it if it is over a couple years old. Do you have a clutch alignment tool as you'll need one when the clutch goes back in. Do you have a set of flywheel bolts (they are special) and a torque wrench since you should NEVER reuse them!!! Do you have one of those large metal drip pans (mine is 4 x 8 feet), you'll need one. Lastly, I hope you have sockets, extensions and wrenches to allow disassembly easily?

There is a step by step in the Haynes 914 manual, you have one I hope, that covers the order to do all the things to get into the seal areas. At the race track I have swapped transmissions in about 2 hours total with a helper but of course I was a lot younger in my racing days, we also have replaced clutch cables in an hour which is what the 914-4 or 914-6 were designed to be able to do once you see how easy it is and the steps needed to do things.

The main order of things is:
- Jack up the car and set it on stands.
- Disconnect the battery.
- Disconnect the starter wires, remove the starter.
- Support the rear of the engine, NO jack, either a chain as I mentioned or stand.
- Disconnect clutch cable, tie it out of the way.
- Disconnect both axles, tie them up. You can remove both rear wheels to give more room, but I always left them on just in case!
- Loosen then remove the speedo cable connection, tie cable end out of the way.
- Remove muffler, plug the exhaust openings with shop rags.
- Support the transmission with a jack.
- Loosen then after checking all is okay, pull trans mount bolts.
- Slightly lower the rear of the transmission.....just slightly.
- Make sure the engine is okay and nothing is hitting a firewall then loosen bottom then top transmission mount bolts and pull transmission back slightly, if all feels smooth then remove all 4 bolts and slide trans back then lower it out of the way.
- Remove bell housing bolts then pull that chunk of alloy out of the way.
- Look at the inside for oil, ETC, if it is running down from behind the flywheel then pull the clutch pressure plate, disk then flywheel.
- Replace the seal for the crank if needed.
- Reassembly is the opposite of disassembly. Remember DO NO REUSE FLYWHEEL BOLTS as then there is as good chance they will snap. I had that happen on my 2.8L big four and it cost me a race at Willow Springs and the mechanic that worked my car his job and he got black listed!

Did all that sound about right Dave? It has been a while for me and I am getting old
John

Seems like you have done this before!!!
Thank you John!

[John Rogers]

Well I guess I have.....when my late wife got tired of me "tinkering" with her 1987 Turbo and told me to "get your own race car..I bought the 914 which at that time had a 2.4L engine, raced, autocrossed and time trialed it for a year and it started burning lots of oil. The engine was pulled and P&Cs redone, heads redone and that lasted for three vintage race weekends. Did that for several years until I broke a rod, got a 2.8L engine, it would last two weekends, maybe! So I swapped in a 2.0L six, it had some track time on it but it lasted for 28 race weekends, much more reliable. Then put in a 2.8L six after a rod broke. Finally my health forced me to sell the car. Over the years I did 4 throttle cables, 3 clutch cables, 2 trans swaps and axle/brake work all done at the track.
John

[wanabe911 owner]

At the Track, Impressive sir!

[Dave at Pelican Parts]

Originally Posted by John Rogers

Did all that sound about right Dave? It has been a while for me and I am getting old
John

I think you omitted the reverse light wires (under a rubber cover in the middle of the left side of the trans case) and the ground strap (from a bolt on the back of the trans up to the trunk floor). That seems about it, though!

Oh, and let me second that you don't want to support the engine with a floor jack. Not unless you like replacing torn motor mounts.... (Don't ask how I know that.)

One other thing is that I loosened up the big outboard bolts on the motor mount bar so that I could tilt the back of the drivetrain down slightly. That made it easier to slide the trans off of the clutch/flywheel. And of course, one or two of the bolts that hold the trans onto the motor are accessed from the motor side, including one that also holds the starter on!

I generally just lay down under the trans and supported it on my knees and pulled it off the flywheel with my hands. I wound up with a lap-full of transmission that way; it's "only" about 75 lbs so I figured I could handle it. Got lots of lovely grease and dirt ground into my shop clothes, of course.

--DD

[wanabe911 owner]

Hey there everyone, so got the transmission out and it seems that the oil is leaking from the cam plug and oil galley plugs, they had some goop like epoxy or permeated on them and once removed they are completely loose in the case.

[wanabe911 owner]

[Dave at Pelican Parts]

Well, that's pretty darned annoying.

You have four alternatives that I can see, none of them particularly appealing.

1- Clean the goop off as best as humanly possible and then re-goop.
2- Pull the plugs and tap for pipe plugs, being as careful as possible to get all of the chips. (E.g., grease on the tap, pull it out frequently to wipe off grease and chips, etc.)
3- Pull the plugs, press in new plugs.
4- Tear the engine down, tap for pipe plugs as part of the rebuild.

--DD

[tonythetarga]

There are some aluminum products that are a two part mix. Could be a good solution for the oil galleys if you don't want to tap and replace. I believe 930Cabman tapped his with threads and threaded in a plug with sealant. I also think it was done before the build. A bigger problem, as Dave says, now that the engine is together. The cam plug is different. if it is loose, you'll have to try and clean it in place as good as possible, hold it in with light pressure and put on a few dabs to keep it in place. The apply another layer over the whole thing to seal exterior rim and plug. You'll need something that can stand high heat. It could be ugly but should hold.

[Zuffenwerker]

I've seen a lot of 911 engines with JB Weld over press fit plugs. Seems to be pretty popular right or wrong. Just an observation.

Daniel