Help!!! Frozen rear hub nut....

KURO · 07-14-2003, 04:06 PM

Put 6+ hours on Sunday trying to turn the rear hub nuts. After 2 o2 cans for the portable torch, one broken 1/2" drive ratchet, one broken impact wrentch (those you beat up with hammer), several bent gas pipes and bars, and 3 sweat soaked T-shirts, my driver-side rear hub nut is still frozen.

I assume you turn the dr-side rear hub nut counterclock wise to loosen just like everything else except the dr-side front hub locking nut, correct?

Any tricks that I could try before taking my dremel and split the nut and risk damaging the stub axle thread? I weigh only 130lb so I guess the torque I applied would be about 260lb-ft so far (does jumping on the bar count extra?) I'm gonna see if Home Depot has some stonger bar that I could use (and hope that I do not break any more tools.)

Thanks.

scg · 07-14-2003, 04:35 PM

some pb blaster and a 6 foot long cheater bar (I don't think gas pipe is quite thick enough)...

...or an air impact wrench

AND patience! When it finally lets go, the sound you hear will be incredible! (skrrrrreeeeeeeeeecccckkkkkkkkk!)

try this thread (and do a search for other suggestions....) Best tools to have for your 914 project

Jim Smolka · 06:12 PM

Step up to the 3/4" drive stuff.
A 3/4" impact is a fun tool to have

red-beard · red-beard's Garage

"Gimme some heat. We need some heat here man...." (Fifth Element)

Heat that sucker up with a torch. It will come loose.

James

Biggy72 · Biggy72's Garage

heat it up and then squirt some kinda penetrating lube onto it, then wait for it and heat it up again, do this over and over til it soaks some in and then try it again.

elwood-914 · 07-14-2003, 07:54 PM

Got mine off with an impact driver, even then it didn't want to break loose.

John Rogers · 07-14-2003, 08:14 PM

I had ones like this on an old VW bus and we used 3/4 breaker bar/sockets and a 10 foot piece of black iron pipe. It took three of us nearly lifting the wheel off the ground while another hit it with a sledge hammer to get them loose!

red-beard · red-beard's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by john rogers
I had ones like this on an old VW bus and we used 3/4 breaker bar/sockets and a 10 foot piece of black iron pipe. It took three of us nearly lifting the wheel off the ground while another hit it with a sledge hammer to get them loose!

What a visual!

James

"Give me a lever long enough, and I can move the Earth..."

KURO · 07-14-2003, 08:41 PM

Thanks for kind tips.

Today I spent 2 hours with no luck. I bought 5/8" dia x 6" bar and welded 1/2" drive male adapter to drive the socket. I run out of O2 can again (another $10 up in smoke) so had to try without heating up the nut. Still I was about to bend the bar so I quit.

I use propane gas and O2 w/ my portable torch. I saw map gas in the store the other day and knowing little about it, I wonder if it is hotter? Any other option for more heat? Also I'm using Valvoline synythetic lube to penetrate through the rust. Should I get something else more effective?

I'm thinking more toward cutting the darn nut and done with it. What would be the damage for an used stab axle if my hand gets too sloppy? Probably I could have easily afford it for the money I spent for some materials and broken tools....... It's just a part of fun, right?

red-beard · red-beard's Garage

MAPP gas is hotter

scg · 07-14-2003, 09:17 PM

Dang!

jabb · 07-15-2003, 05:22 AM

I would do like sugessted earlier.... step up to a 3/4 inch drive
socket and breaker bar. get a 5 foot long steel/black pipe to slip over the breaker bar. And since you only wiegh 130 lbs find a bigger friend to try it or some one else to lean on the bar with you. Make sure the tranny is in gear and the Emergency brake is on.....

karlp · 07-15-2003, 05:49 AM

It sounds to me like you've given that every opportunity to come quietly.
Cut it off!
You don't have to cut all the way to the axle. I had a similar run in with one. I used a die grinder and ground a flat on the nut 'till I was almost to the stub axle threads then split it with a chisel.
I found a replacement nut at a motorcycle shop.

Karl P

douglas robbins · 12:25 PM

Don't break the nut! Do it the right way. Here's how:

1. Go to Sears and buy a 3/4 inch drive breaker bar or flex head. Do not buy a 3/4 ratchet. It will only break. You might be able to get away with a 1/2 inch breaker bar or flex head but it will break at about 700 ft/lb and you may need more force. It's hard to say what you will need without seeing your castelated nut. Whatever you buy, if you break it, you can return it for fresh exchange at Sears. I've done this more than a few times.

2. Get a 6 foot long cheater bar. It must be thick. Iron pipe will work as will steel pipe. Make sure the pipe fits over the handle of your 3/4 inch or 1/2 inch breaker bar/flex head (whatever you have).

3. Soak the nut in penetrating oil for a few hours. Use real penetrating oil, not motor oil. Remove the cotter pin if there is one.

4. Attatch the breaker bar/flex head to your socket. You can get cheap ass sockets for this application from your VW parts store. Do not buy the pretty chrome socket. Try to get the flat socket with the open end. The VW parts store guy will know what I'm talking about.

5. Do not jack up the car. Block the wheels on the ground. Put car in gear. Apply e-brake. But most importantly block the wheels (like I said).

6. Attach the socket to the nut, the breaker bar to the socket, slip the the cheater bar over the breaker bar and yourself to the cheater bar. Be sure to keep the socket square on the nut at all times. Most importantly, wear protective eyeware. Nuts and tools are cheap. Eyes are expensive! Also wear some leather gloves if you have them.

7. Get on the bar. If the nut does not turn, lenghten the cheater bar by pulling it off the breaker bar some. This should get you another foot of lenght. If this does not help, get a heavier person on the bar.

If you weigh 130 lb and you hang off the end of a 6 ft bar you will be generating 780 ft/lb. If you lenghtn the bar by one foot you will be generating 910 ft/lb. If you get a 180 lb guy to hang off the end of your 6 ft bar that guy will be generating 1080 ft/lb. Assuming there's no cotter pin jammed in the nut, and assuming you are turning counterclockwise on a rear nut, there is no way that thing won't break loose at over 1000 ft/lb.

Let me know if the instructions are not clear.

Douglas

914GT · 07-15-2003, 01:41 PM

When (if) the nut is off, the next fun step will be driving the axle shaft out of the hub! Go from big-a$$ breaker bar to big-a$$ hammer ...

sammyg2 · 07-15-2003, 03:23 PM

There are many products out there thet get used as penetrating oils. Some are good, others are junk.
The best I've ever used is called Kroil or aero-Kroil.
PB-blaster is good, Liquid wrench isn't bad. WD-40 and other similar produsts are for door hinges on the closet, not cars. They are not penetrating oils. They will displace water, that's about it. Pure kerosene works better than WD-40 as a penetrant.
Get some real penetrating oil. Spray it on liberally. Wait 2 minutes, hit the nut hard with a hammer 10 times. Spray again, repeat, repeat again.
Let sit over night. Get a big breaker bar like the others suggest and crank on that bad boy. It will come loose. I've broken a 1/2" craftsman breaker bar on one, I took it back and got a new one free. Those buggers can really be tight sometimes.
BTW Harbor Freight tools sells breaker bars for less that 1/4 of what Sears charges and are still guaranteed. If you break they replace no questions asked.

MAPP gets much hotter than propane, not as hot as oxy-accetalyne (sp?) but hot. If you have to you can heat it up with MAPP gas and that will make it easier to get loose.