how fast is your 914
 

I have a 914 six conversion with a very good running 79 sc 3.0 with 40,000 on the rebuild. It is a basically stock cis engine with msd ignition, and short gears in the tranny. I have less than 800 miles on the car since i got it on the road. The car runs very smooth and will go pretty good once it gets the rpms into the 4000 range and pulls good to redline. I would not call my car fast and all the new cars on the road today I fear would have no trouble running away from me. My lexus LS400 feels alot quicker. Maybe I am wrong as I have never had a show down with a boxster or a nissan or such. I see a lot of you run 3.2's in there 914's. to get my little 914 to run with the new kids how big must I go 3.2, 3.6, 3.8 or rfngs sc turbo kit on the 3.0. I do love the driveability of the 3.0 and it feels well suited for the car. How quick is my car and what can I expect from it if I have a boxster or nissan 350Z running up my backside.

I for one would like a quicker 914 but it's not a big deal to me. I like that fact that my car is just plain fun! I have a 2.0 4 with carbs on it, it's anything but a quick car but it's fun as hell and take on just about anything in the twisties. As far as drag racing it at stoplights and stuff...I don't,
It's a curve lover, not a streetfighter :D

That being said, if anyone wants to donate a 3.2 6 or a big 4...I'm willing to test it out and see how much more fun that'd be, haha.

Nathan

Oh yeah, I almost forgot, a 3.2 6 cyl w/ FI or even a hopped up 3.0 can be a hoot if tuned correctly and run w/ most cars out on the street today, good luck

I'm about to delve into a 2.7CIS engine, but up to this point I haven't had much experience with them. CIS, and the intake restrictions associated with them are supposed to dog down the engine a bit.

Your experience with the engine not pulling until 4000 rpm seems to mirror my experience with my 2.2. I thought the longer stroke of the 2.7, 3.0 and 3.2 were supposed to open the range up a bit.

James

I'll let you know how slow mine is once I stick my 2270 in it!!! :)

I don't think they're all *that* slow, the low-ish C/R 2056 with 40 IDF's on it right now do OK.

You 1.7l guys have some serious patience though... :)

Later,
Tom

Depends on what you mean by "slow". If you're talking 0-60 or 1/4 mile times, or top speed, my 2.0L FI 4-cyl is slow. If you're talking track times on a tight circuit, however, no, it's pretty fast. I'm about 1 to 2 seconds slower on the main track at Firebird with my 914 in comparison to my '98 BMW M3. I have no trouble with driving my 914 in the faster groups at BMWCCA DE events, and have passed plenty of cars that would eat my 914 alive in a straight line test of speed. If I had a 3.0 L 6-cyl, my car would be nearly untouchable on most tracks. If I took a Lexus LS 400 to the track, it would be a complete joke in comparison to a typical 914. Heavy cars like the LS 400 are sprung so softly that they roll terribly on a tight track. Even stock 5-series BMW's (other than 540 sport or M5's) roll badly. So, from my perspective, a 914 is a pretty capable car.

In college I drove 40' tour buses (Greyhound type, usually with a Detroit Diesel 8V-71 or a 6V-92 turbo and a 5-spd). It's not quite that slow.

However, point taken on the whole package... my friend's '51 Pontiac Chieftain has a '71 Ram Air III 455 with 425hp (dyno) at the rear wheels. Quickest car I've ever been in 0-80mph, just don't ask it to stop or turn.

I would not say my 3.0 is slow, just not scary fast, and handling speaks for itself, my ls400 pulls forever but handles terrible. I would like to know how a simular car such as mine with a 3.0 or better stacks up against a boxster or nissan 350z in acceleration. My car is set up as good as it can be , I converted a track car to my street car and it is as race ready as it gets in regards to handling and braking. Has anyone been to a track event and run with a boxster or Nissan, Bmw, Mazda or Honda ? And could you keep up with them on the straights.

Straights are for girls and rednecks. turns are where it's at :)

My first 914 was a completely stock 1.7 Not fast at all in a stright line but none of my friends could keep up with me on the way up to big bear mountain.

since that time I built two other 914s that were just a tad faster ;) The first one is still my favorite.

OMG! Your car is damn slow. I had a 88 Hyundai Excel and it was slower dirt. One time I acutally had a running Dog beat me up a hill that was only about a 30 degree incline! http://www.pelicanparts.com/support/smileys/shake.gif I got a VW shortly after that.

If you'll allow me to be an "armchair bozo" for a few minutes, we can look at the numbers.

350Z "track": 287 HP @ 6,200 rpm ; 274 lb-ft @ 4,800 rpm ; 3225 lbs. Nissan claims 5.4 seconds 0-60 MPH.
Pretty even HP and TQ, probably shows a reasonably flexible engine. 11.23 lb/HP is a pretty decent figure.

Base Boxster 2.7L: 225 HP @ 6,300 RPM ; 192 lb-ft @ 4,700 RPM ; 2810 lbs. Porsche claims a 6.4 second 0-62 MPH sprint. (NOTE: 0-60 would be a touch quicker.)
HP is significantly more than TQ, giving us a somewhat rev-happy engine that is a little bit lacking at lower RPMs. You have to work to keep the motor in the "fun zone". 12.48 lb/HP is respectable, but not really in contention with the Z.

Assuming equal gearing (it ain't, but I'm not gonna dig that far into the specs!!) the Z will have a small but definite edge on the Boxster.

914-6 3.0 CIS (all figures estimates) : 190 HP ; 180 lb-ft ; 2200 lbs. Unknown 0-60 time.
This should be a very flexible engine, with HP and torque numbers closely matched. (In the later 911SC, they are equal at 180 in both cases, but the headers required to install the engine in a 914 will add some power. Not sure about peak torque.) However, the 911 engine makes do without the variable-geometry intake manifolds, variable cam timing (and lift and duration in some cases!) that modern engines use to broaden their torque curve, so the Six may be a little less flexible than the numbers show. Still, it should give you pretty decent punch at most engine speeds. At 11.5 lb/HP, this car should do pretty well for itself.

Assuming equal gearing, and a willingness to abuse the machinery, the Six should be able to keep up with the 350Z at lower speeds and probably can pull on the base Boxster for a while. The light weight is what does it--add another couple of hundred pounds and things start looking much worse for the poor 914.

Get to the twisty bits, and the Z should start lagging while the Boxter keeps up or gets ahead. Get into the really tight stuff, and the Boxster's extra 680 lbs will probably cause it to fall off the pace a little bit.

Of course, this is all nothing but arm-waving... Unless someone has a Z, a Box, and a 3.0 Six for me to play with??? :D


Check Brad Anders' post above. He walks all over some of the Bimmers, including some M3s. Though I think that's more a function of the driver than anything else, but he's within a couple of seconds of his M3 track times in his stock-engined 2.0 liter 914-4! A 3.0 Six should walk away from most stock BMWs on the track.

--DD

I think if you put a WRX engine in the 914 it will out perform all those cars in the straights and the twistys. The car is at home with it's feet warm by the fire in any curvy section of road and only the tightest suspensions will be able to keep up. As Dave said weight is the key to success with 914s.

If you have a 914 let all the hiway hounds run each other down and smile :p as they pass you by. After all they will never know how fast you can go if you don't indulge their fancy.

I think my '73 2.0's performance compares well to the first generation Miata and other, much newer sports car like the '88 CRX Si and Toyota MR2 http://persweb.direct.ca/aschwenk/914page10.htm .

http://persweb.direct.ca/aschwenk/C&Dpage45.jpg

My 73 with my 2316cc Annihilator will run 110 in 3rd gear at Max RPM. zero-60 in about 6 seconds. I have had it to 135 in fifth and still had plenty of revs left.

130+ is fast enough for me, sure the last 20 takes a while...


M

Another point is that in street use in the US, top speed is essentially useless. For example, I regularly drive from Phoenix to Flagstaff, about 175 miles, on highway 17 (75 mph limit). I just went up and back there in my M3, my speed was generally between 80 to 95 mph, with a few short runs to about 105 mph. Was I the fastest car along this route? No, not even close. I was passed by at least 10 other cars, the majority of them pickup trucks being driven flat-out.

What good is my M3's 137 mph (limited) speed in this situation? It's not safe to drive on this road at this speed, and if I did and was caught by the cops, it wouldn't be pretty. Even the wide-open stretches of highway in the west (e.g., highway 50 across Nevada) may look safe to take flat-out, until you have an animal jump out in front of you. No thanks.

So, is top speed useful on the track? Not for the most part. You'd need a place like the Nurbergring to have enough straight to wring out your typical car capable of 150 mph plus.

That's why a 914 is so much fun. You have great handling, which is even more of an advantage on winding (i.e. "slow") roads. Lack of power isn't much of an issue, IMO.

With my short gears 2nd,3rd,4th go by pretty quick and leave me around 100. I am lucky to have a nice track to try my car out when I get the chance. Bir has a very long straight into a long full on banked turn, Bir's straight would see my top end.
In my youth I raced enduro karts capable of 160, other drivers were better and more skilled in the corners than I, because I was much faster in the straight I was always in the race.
When I am able to participate in the PCA track events I will know how I fair against the other cars.

It's fast enough to have fun! That's what counts :)

That's scary. I-10 outside of Phoenix heading west, I was passed by motor homes doing @100 and using 2 lanes because of the cross-wind. Never a cop when you need one ;)

You are bumming me out Chappy... the only 3.0L 6 I ever rode in was a blast off the line... it had some higher compression Euro pistons.... and maybe some other mods... but it did use CIS.

I think he likely had the HP pumped up to 230+ on the car.

I'm surprised you don't get much pull until over 4k. My old 2.4 911T had a smaller engine but similar cams, and pulled great above 2k, but really took off at 3k. I thought that car was pretty fast compared to other cars I had driven and it was only 140 hp. I would think that 180-200 hp in a 914 would be very fast.

Jeff - You've driven a 914 with 180 HP....