V8 Conversion question. - Page 4

sammyg2 · 03-08-2004, 01:50 PM

When I did my shift bar I just ground off the tack welds on the solid bars where they go into the center tubular section, pulled them out a little, tested the fit, repeat. I had to do some custom bending to miss the headers and engine mount. once I got it the right shape and length I just re-tacked the rods into the tube. Took a couple hours, really got tired of crawling under and out of the car. I paid special attention to keep the holes in the rods indexed correctly so I wouldn't have to play with the adjustment too much. Might have been an easier way but I wasn't aware of it and what I did worked.

John2kx · John2kx's Garage

Glad to see info pertaining to V8's here. Have not been around in a while but wanted to once again thank all those who helped me with my project. Been on the road about 17 months now and have not broke anything yet.

I had the urge for a new 5.0L mustang engine for my project just because I like the sound this engine makes as compared to a small block chevy. Did my research and found out fitment of the Ford in a 914 was going to be a real hassle and not as clean as with the SBC. The complete kit concept from Renegade attracted my attention as well and they now only make kits for SBC. The V6 caused too many 901 failures for the reasons Sammy mentioned.

My research kept making mention of torque and engine design with respect to when engine make maximum torque. I wanted to go with a brand new engine from chevy (ZZ4) but the torque curve was all wrong for the 901. Ended up having Wild Bill (same guy who builds for RH) put together a all new engine using his experience with this type of drivetrain.

My transaxle was rebuilt to stock specs. about 2 years prior to me purchasing car (with 2L) and has held up well to the 400hp it is coupled to.

Some excellent points have been made in this thread. It is a keeper for anyone wanting to go the v8 route. Sammy, your posts never go unread by me. Thanks again.

John Thomas
Augusta, Ga.

914GT · 03-08-2004, 06:27 PM

Because of the way I mounted my water pump, I had to clear a section of the bar for the motor mount and hose. First I found how much I needed to take out for clearance, then I used my bearing press to shape some 1/2" tube to match the curve. I welded this on top of the bar on both ends, then cut the bar out afterwards leaving the original geometry intact. I still need to clean it up a bit and paint it, this is how it looks:

I picked a straight section from the old piece I took out, and cut a 1-1/2" length off and used it to lengthen the bar at the tranny end. Before cutting the bar for the added section I scribed a line along the bar lengthwise for proper alignment, and slipped a short piece of 1/2" conduit inside to help hold the pieces straight until I welded it in.

sean_V8_914 · sean_V8_914's Garage

could you tell us more about that variation in water pump plumbing.

914GT · 03-09-2004, 08:26 AM

I bolted the pump on the motor mount bar. This puts it down low in the system. A short suction hose attaches it to my hard line running under the car. In the picture above there's a plugged elbow, to connect to a separate hose for my heater core. The pump outlet has a short hose running to the water manifold on the front of the block. I've got a Dedenbear expansion tank bolted on the intake, with a hose to the other hardline under the car. It's really simple and looks good. The real question is - will it cool my car? Maybe in a couple more weeks I will find out.

sean_V8_914 · sean_V8_914's Garage

OK, that explains alot. I was going to ask you about that "Dedenbear" thing on your mojo. did you allready post pics of your rad install? Being so close to being able to drive it feels great. I love that feeling but Im a long wats away. The stock track car comes first, then the v8

914GT · 03-09-2004, 10:19 AM

Haven't posted any pics, but I can put a couple up showing the radiator and the top of the engine if you're interested. I did post a pic on the water pump mounting a week or so ago here => http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploads2/engine_bar1078284334.jpg

sean_V8_914 · sean_V8_914's Garage

why electric?

914GT · 03-09-2004, 06:34 PM

The electric pump cost me $275, pushes 15 gal/min on 3 amps regardless of engine rpm. Very reliable and long life (> 10k hours) providing no teflon tape or leak stop put in the cooling system to jam the impeller. I can mount it where it's easy to get to. A custom mechanical pump using a Chrysler impeller was going to run me almost $500 including the brackets, pulley, and belt. If I built one up myself it would have been cheaper though. Maybe I'll regret going this route but that's part of the fun doing something my own way and learning from it. If it doesn't pan out I can always go to a 'conventional' pump. Will find out once I'm up and running in the desert heat.

Here's two more pics of the radiator and the expansion tank. Pardon the dust.

sean_V8_914 · sean_V8_914's Garage

Doug Crooms · 03-10-2004, 06:47 AM

Guy, that's a great looking conversion your doing. How about a quick overview of specifics to bring me and others up to speed on it. Most of this you've probably said many times, but stuff like what engine, manifold, carb, is the engine mount from a 'kit', did you use a hybrid company for parts, anything you'd do differently (so far). I'm seriously considering this option.

AJS · 03-10-2004, 08:42 AM

914GT,

An overview would be nice......whose radiator setup are you running?

Andy

914GT · 03-10-2004, 09:00 AM

Doug, I'm a newbie to this. It's my first conversion and if not for people on this board (like John, Sam and Sean) and another Tucsonan whose done previous conversions, the project would have been much more difficult. Just like anything else you can take advantage of somebody elses' experience and either copy it (don't reinvent the wheel) or maybe improve upon it. Or if you're a 'hacker' like me, go off and do your own thing once in a while. I've deviated from the 'normal' way of doing these conversions in a few areas. Like I said, I think that's what makes it fun and interesting. It's cool to be different once in a while, the whole car is different.

As an overview, I bought this car about 18 months ago. It barely got me across town and it smoked so bad that people gave me the finger and held their nose at stop lights. The car died right when I got to my driveway and I had to push it the last 30' into the garage. I stripped it down to find hidden rust and lots of screwed-up things mechanical and electrical. I was amazed the car ran at all. I spent several months repairing rust and old collision damage to get the body straight. I bought the tools and set up my own paint booth, and it was my first paint job I will admit doing. I did most of the preparation for the conversion (cutting holes, etc.) before painting. Also did trailing arm and other body stiffening. I spent the past year or so just 'restoring' every part of the car. All new bushings, brake upgrades, rotors, etc. Lots of $$! I completely re-did the interior but with more fabric, sound insulation, and some powdercoating. I originally had a 305 I rebuilt but this was the absolute worst-choice motor, so I sold it and the buyer (friend of mine) has promised me a 327 core as part of the deal (future project). For now I rebuilt a 350 which is what's going in. It's bored .030 over, has stock heads with some pocket porting and stronger valve springs. All new valves, guides and seats. Performance cam (not RV) chosen for torque mid to high rpm. Clutch and adapter are Kennedy, and few other parts I bought locally. My buddy here in Tucson sold me a custom radiator and the powdercoated fan shroud.

There's probably a few things I'd have done a little differently but overall I'm happy with it. It should be a fun car. I just hope the gas prices don't go so high I can't afford to drive it. Then I'll want the old 2.0 back in. Feel free to ask questions, I'm happy to share what I've learned from the other experts here.

John2kx · John2kx's Garage

Guy,

Kudos on the clean installation!! It's rare when you find someone who goes to this level of detail.........I've seen my share to hack jobs. The blood, sweat, tears and $$$$ you have dropped so far will pay off in the end.

Your electric pump installation is unique and I look forward to hearing the results.

Don't take this as a dig, but the only thing I see that you may regret in the future is choice of expansion tank. You'll spend some time removing air from system and the device your using may create a mess on top of that pretty engine when it comes time to add fluid during the fill and air removal (bleed) procedure. For less $$$ I recommend the RH fill device that is installed away from engine in a more friendly position.

Keep up the good work!!

John

914GT · 03-10-2004, 12:30 PM

John, thanks very much for the encouraging comments. I don't take anything as a dig. If somebody points out a potential problem I want to hear about it. Now, on that expansion tank - here's the rest of the story. If you look right under the 'radiator' cap you'll see a plugged hole. That is one of two available holes for a hose fitting that will go to an overflow tank mounted nearby. So the plan is, once I do the initial fill & bleed, that I'll only need to add coolant on occasion to the overflow tank. So hopefully I won't have much of a mess going on right on top of the engine.

But you just pointed out something - if I was to do it again I'd go with the RH filler. Easier and cheaper.

sammyg2 · 03-10-2004, 12:48 PM

Guy, very, very nice. It shows that you are paying attention to the details and that's the difference between a great conversion car and a hack job.

I can't wait to see pics when it's done. Keep it up, don't get discouraged. I know how much work is involved and it's easy to get burned out on it.

John2kx · John2kx's Garage

Guy,

What kind of thermostat did you install and did you drill holes in t/s to prevent water pump from dead heading while engine warms up?

John

914GT · 03-10-2004, 06:18 PM

No thermostat yet. Any temp recommendation? What's the concern with a closed thermostat when cold?

John2kx · John2kx's Garage

Guy,

With the mechanical water pump, damage can occur to impeller if rpm is too high each time car is started when cold. I suspect this could happen to any type of pump. Until thermostat begins to open, the water pump is just dead heading.

A stock chevy water pump has bypass to prevent this from happening. With our arrangement, the bypass is eliminated.

The other purpose of the three 1/8" holes in thermostat is to eliminate air bubbles when filling cooling system. With the t/s closed (without any added holes), you fill your system and the water goes down the return hose to radiator, when radiator is filled, water (and air) then heads back to water pump and has to work its way through non spinning impeller and then into block. The added holes in t/s allow air to escape during this procedure and eliminates these pockets throughout system.

My t/s of choice (and I've used them all) is distributed by Mr. Gasket. It looks different than anything else I've used and when in the open position allows more water to flow than your run of the mill t/s. Available through Summit or Jeggs and listed as their "highflow thermostat". There is a thread on 914club this week that shows a picture.

I use the 180F range. Even with my Renegade cooling system, I had temperature spikes higher than I wanted to see until this t/s was installed.

John

sammyg2 · 03-11-2004, 06:23 AM

I used a 180 degree T-stat with four 1/8" holes drilled in it, that was done AFTER I blew a hose off the pump. Those chrysler pumps can puit out some serious pressure. I don't know if the electric pump would do the same thing, prolly not.
The thermostat I used was one of those "fail open" style. Not sure if it was necessary but sounded good on the package.