Need More Power... what are my options

[yousaidpoo]

Currently I have a '74 1.8 L-jet and after driving it for a little while I have come to the conclusion that it definately could use some more grunt. Nothing too radical, I'm looking for the 110-120 range. I was thinking about going all out and moving up to a 2270cc engine, but I'm thinking thats a little too much... for now.

One option I was considering was going to a 2056cc engine with dual carbs, which reportedly would get me right into that ~110hp range. How much would it run for the parts to do this (and what are those parts ) I would be doing all of the work myself, so I would just need parts.

If anybody has any other ideas that they have tried, I would like to know.

Also, I was wondering if dual weber 44's, when properly tuned, can give you more hp/torque from just doing that conversion. I have heard mixed comments about that conversion.

[Rouser]

Since it costs $$$ to go faster, the next question would be, "How fast do you want to go?" Also, you mentioned that you were interested in a 2270 option, so were you talking about a Jake Raby engine?

By doing a 2056, you'd just be taking money away from a possible 2270 neck trauma. 44 IDF's would be WAY too big for your 1.8, pushing it for a 2056, but just right for a 2270.

You might want to check Jake's site and see if he'll recommend a kit for you; one-stop shopping, proven results, and save yourself the grief. As it's so often said, it's all in the combo.

[tat2dphreak]

the bare basics you would need to make a 2056 are a 2.0L crank, rods and 96mm pistons and your cylinders machined to accept 96s, a cam change, carbs, etc...

do yourself a favor though... Jake has KITS for 2056s and 2270s, everything you need plus head work to make the engine RIGHT... not just make it... I added up the PARTS and headwork for me to do it buying the best deals I could find... close to 3k including the headwork... and that is almost what jake's kits or even 2.0L engines cost... even his 2.0Ls make 100+ you have the runt of the 914 litter with the 1.8... and a 30yr old 1.8 is even weaker...

[mike_the_man]

V8 baby! I've decided thats the way I'm going to go. Drive the 2.0L till it blows, then put in some real power!

[balthazar]

Hello! here's my .02 worth

I am running dual weber 40 idf's on a 1.7L 914. The acceleration is very snappy w/ a good top end. The car breaths better now than with the stock FI.

I also replaced the fuel lines through the tunnel and installed a new rotary pump in the front trunk (from PP btw). I am very satisfied for the moment. I am prolly sitting around 90-100hp...

I agree that 44's are a bit excessive. You should look at a set of 40 idf's with 1.40 mains. The 1.8 has a pretty low compression ratio but you should see an improvement.

I am just starting the process of building a 2056. I will be using a GA engine as a base. I plan on getting 140+hp. I will use 44's on this engine.

This configuration appeals to me because I can keep all my stock 2.0 stuff w/o modifying the case etc. I can return the engine to stock w/o to much trouble if that is desirable in the future.

The car will have 9.1 cr, webcam, head work including bigger exaust valves, an external oil cooler, and BMW brakes w/ bigger master cylinder. Then I can start to improve the suspension.

clink clink

[Jake Raby]

140+ true dyno HP from a 2056 isn't happening at 9:1, not even with a wild cam- unless you get very lucky.

140s in a 40mm carb will be rich as hell, especially if you keep the 28mm venturi... Most 28 vents like a 115, most 30s like a 122 and 32s like a 125

all dependant upon your combination and elevation.

[balthazar]

I stand corrected. I was using the table listed on p.64 of the "weber tech manual" for dual carb installations. The table states that a set of 40 IDF's on a 1.7-1.8L w/28mm venturies should use 140 mains! That's way off!

This helps me with my current set-up. I am running too rich! I thought it was a little too much gas, now I know it is! I need to change my mains to 115.

Can a 2056 generate 140hp on pump gas? What cr would be needed? I want to get as close as possible and still be streetable.

[Jake Raby]

Ah, of course- The BOOK said it!

Just so happens that the "book" comes from the same place that sells 44s with a 155 main, and recommends it when I NEVER need more than a 140! At 155 the fuel plots are richer than hell and it has no power. Trim it down to 135 and the fuel drops and numbers climb and it cleans up nicely in the top end.

What really gets me is that the carbs are sold to them with 135 mains and THEY ream them to 155! I dyno atleast 75 engines a year personally, and have not seen ONE YET that ran on pump gas and needed a 155 main in a 44, or a 140 in a 40! Race gas is thicker viscosity and goes through the jet slower and needs a larger jet, pump gas is thin and a totally different story.

As for 140 HP... You'll need a trick set of heads and a matching cam and around 9.7:1 to do it.... The safer way to get 140 ponies is to build the engine larger and generate more power at lower RPM for a cheaper price..

Its all in the combo!

I just dynoed this one today, it made this power with Weber 44s with guess what???? 135 main jets!

http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=71571


Its a full daily driver.

[balthazar]

Thanks Jake. Now I don't know what too do with the GA engine. I think I will just rebuild it stock and use my 1.8 as the base for the big engine.

I can't afford those nifty nickies. Why did LN Engineering stop making the birals? No interest?

[Bleyseng]

120hp out of a 2056 should be plenty compared to a 1.7L at 80hp. Drive a good 2056 first to see the difference otherwise you are chasing hp numbers. Big hp numbers take big $$$$$
Geoff

[Jake Raby]

The Birals were too much work for their cost... They are great though as I have had a set on a race engine for two years and they just needed honing!

[tat2dphreak]

I agree with Geoff! it takes very little to move these bad boys around... the "seat of your pants dyno" will be amazed!

[yousaidpoo]

yea, i got a chance to drive a 2056, and i like the way it drove. Got a little bit of the neck snap. Pulled up next to a riced out civic at a stop light and blew it away. Pulled strong from low rpm all the way up. I'm planning on getting a 2056 kit and doing it myself. my main question is how much it would run for the kit

By the way, my other car is now a 1994 camaro z28. It got me hooked on straight line speed... Maybe the z28 engine in the teener.... *devilish grin*

[balthazar]

You guys are lucky to live out there in CA. I am stuck here in Indy. I don't know anyone with a 2056 or I would go drive it as suggested. The only other car (in driving condition) I have seen out here in the sticks was another 1.7 w/delorto 40's and it was the first 914 I drove!

Oh well, I am moving to Colorado in July, so maybe I'll meet someone out there with a 2056, or better

[yousaidpoo]

now the big question... what to call the car...

If it was brown, it would definately be chocolate thunder, but its blue. Any ideas?

[GPRparts]

If your looking for 110-120hp, I have an engine here at the shop for sale that is just that. It was originaly a 1.8, it has a counterwighted 2.0 crank, 2.0 rods, Euro spec 2.0 P&C's, E webcam (~280 deg), 911 style rocker feet, rebuilt 1.8 heads, compression around 9.5:1, 40mm IDF webers, 5K on motor. It pulls hard from about 2000 to 7000. Asking $3000 obo. 6 month warrantee. 800.321.5432. Thanks, Don.

[yousaidpoo]

thanks for the offer, but i would really rather just have the parts and rebuild the engine myself.

Balthazar, I actually live in Raleigh, North Carolina, so they can pop up anywhere. The only bad thing is its mostly jackasses in riced out civics with those annoying mufflers, and guys with really big trucks out here. There is only one other teener on the road, its a stock white 1.8 with L-jet. The 2056 i drove was owned by a friend of the guy that owns the shop i get most of my parts from. Guards red, everything in perfect condition... very very nice. And surprisingly very very fast for a 4-banger

[tat2dphreak]

yousaidpoo, I would get a kit from Jake! go to www.aircooledtechnology.com send him an email and let the fun begin! he even has a kick@$$ video to show you step by step how to set the mother up! and it shouldn't be much more than the engine GPR mentioned... and everything will be right!

if you want an engine that's ready to roll, mikez has one that's a screaming deal!

how much are you looking to spend?

[GPRparts]

I hear you, its fun and easy to build those motors. One word of advice, if you want drivability, go with the 40mm and the E cam, anything bigger you get more power, but lose a nice idle and any moderate throddle acceleration. Good luck, Don.

[Will98D]

My guess is that "the book" is so far off because the people that wrote it do know how to flow their carbs, but they intentionally give rich settings to prevent engine damage from running lean. It's basically like every snowmobile I've ever owned, they all come from the factory so rich that it's tough to get a day's riding in without fouling a plug. However, go too lean and spray molten aluminum around inside the cylinder. Usually, there's learning from the book to start, and then the improved learning that comes after with experience.