Need Hot Start Relay Instructions

[cary]

I drove from Montana to Portland today. Stopped about 1/2 way for lunch. 100 degrees. Dandy.
Came back out after lunch. NO CRANK. Ignition on. Fuel pump charges up. Fuel pump runs when I CRANK the key.
BUT NO SPIN OF THE STARTER.

After it cooled down about an hour. Cranked right over.
I'll clean and check all the connections in the AM. But I'd like to put a relay in tomorrow.
I should have grabbed my other starter. I brought 2 injections, coil, v-belt, fuel line, relays and fuses. But I did throw in the volt meter.

So could someone draw me a picture and give me parts list. Doesn't seem like it would be real tough.

I'm in Sherwood. I plan to go and knock some cones over with JP on Sunday. Its kind of a PIA to have to keep the car running.

Did 600 miles. Othere than the hot starting issue she ran great. Got a little warm on the steep hills. 210. Oil got a little thin when it went over 100 for about 4 hours. Had 20lbs oil pressue at 2800 rpms. Once it cooled back to 80, she went back to 30 lbs.

Same thing when I got here. Turned her off. No restart. May never happen again. But I'm BIG on prevention.

[campbellcj]

Honestly in my somewhat limited experience, the hot-start relays are a band-aid.

Oftentimes the REAL problem is just a bad starter solenoid, or a ground-fault somewhere.

A thorough cleaning of the ground points on a 914 often cures a whole lot of gremlins.

[cary]

Chris,

Looks like something will need to be fixed. Its cooled down and I still have nothing. So something is unhooked or has failed.

So we'll wait for daylight.

I'm at Super In Laws so I'll need to find the jacks stands in the light.

[cary]

Crack of Dawn,

S***, now it works. That will make trouble shooting a little more difficult. I'm thinking the yellow wire has a bad connection or the solenoid is shoot.

[philinjax]

Phil

[cary]

Thanks Phil,
What kind relay do I need to buy ? It will from a FLAPS.

[silver2.0]

I pulled mine off. THey are just a poor patch. My starter quit working, and someone had put a hot start relay on to "patch" my real starter silinoid problems. When I put my new starter on, off the realy came. If you want mine you can have it, I don't think I threw it away, but I wouldn't suggest using one.

[cary]

A little more info. Wrecking yard solenoid and starter.

[silver2.0]

they are not that expensive new. I bought mine from motion auto supply for $80. IT's the same starter they used on the auto stick bugs, or so I have been informed. MY had has one, and I compared them, and they do look the same.

[cary]

Found it. Engine ground was hanging by 2 threads. But I think I'll put on a new solenoid for good measure.

Heading to the big bug shop in NE Portland. They had a solenoid on the shelf. Maybe some exhaust gaskets so I can get at the damn nut. LOL.

[philinjax]

All you need is a 10amp, 12 Volt, single pole, single throw,h relay. $4.00 or $5.00 at Radio Shack or JC Whitney.

The hot start (or should I say non-hot start) is a systemic problem with the engine start function. All 914 cars are subject to it. It is a manufacturer's design default. It has to do with tightening of the starter-solenoid mechanical interfaces at higher than normal running temperatures such that the work required to actuate and maintain engagement of the starter is much higher.
This additional work is represented by a higher than normal current draw by the solenoid which results in a greater voltage drop through the long start signal circuitry of the 914. So what happens?

The solenoid drops out (disengages) because of the lower voltage and then immediately recloses because the start signal suddenly recovers to 12 volts, then it drops out again causing the click, click, cllick noise you hear when turning the key to start. This is the mild case. The worst case is "no clicks at all", silence when the key is in the start function. This means the 12 start signal is unable to close the solenoid because of excessive current draw. Hang around until the temp. drops or short the solenoid to battery-alternator terminal with a screw driver while the tranny is in neutral.

Come to think of it, the hot start relay simply replaces the screw driver method, every time you start. You get 12 volts on the solenoid directly from the battery, no matter how hot the system is.

Phil

[Dave at Pelican Parts]

Originally posted by cary
...Maybe some exhaust gaskets so I can get at the damn nut. LOL.

Remember, one of the two alternator mounting nuts is accessed from the engine bay side. It also serves as one of the engine-to-transmission mounting bolts.

--DD

[silver2.0]

in other words, you will access one bolt from the underside of the car, the easy to see one, and the other one you access from the engine compartment above the car. As stated, it is shared to hold the tranny to the engine. It will not turn because the starter has a groove in it to hold the bolt head. All you have to do is reach the nut. I did have one starter strip out the groove that holds the bolt head, and that was a *****. I had to use a crows foot with a long extension on the bottom side, while my father turned the one in the engine compartment. Good luck.

[cary]

This drama is getting better .......... Starter works fine. Spins like a top. But I have no spark at the plugs or the HT from the coil.
Worked perfect for 600 + miles yesterday.

I do have 11.25 volts at 15. What could I have possibly done ?
Coil does seem awfully warm for not being run.
Do I have something backwards ? I don't think so, but stranger things have happened. Or has the new COMPLETE engine ground upset something else ?

This road trip / AX seems doomed.

[J P Stein]

WAG....points or coil. Itermittent failure with heat is often coil.

[cary]

Switched to the spare coil. Notta. I'm thinking of going back and looking at the points. I'd swear I have no gas or spark at idle/start up.
The question is, what would changing the ground strap upset ? Or what could I have torched ?

[J P Stein]

Do you have FI.... trigger points? I don't know much bout FI.....can't be of much help. I have 0 (zero) parts, damnit....got rid of all my t-4 stuff.

[J P Stein]

Tight points will kill it deaderthanasumb!tch.

[Kevin Powers]

my starter crapped out on the way from tacoma to san jose. at a rest stop in mid oregon. it had been intermittantly not working for a while, and failed either hot or cold. my advice is forget the hot start. i picked up a NEW starter at a shop in Redwood City. not having to be embarrased by asking for a stanger to help push the car is pretty nice.

kevin

[J P Stein]

Saw Cary at the AX this AM.....it was points, says he. He missed the morning session but was set to go for the afternoon dance. I has to leave to get to wurk.