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How fast is a 2.0 914

I've heard people talk on this forum about how well their cars run. They also seem to talk about how fast their car runs. What kind of speed are we talking about? 0-60 times around 8 secs? For a 2.0 d-jet car unmodified, then we'll talk about modified later.

Mike
Old 07-12-2005, 07:20 AM
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Stock is around 10 seconds to 60 IIRC. These cars are very "quick" stock, able to change direction quickly and dart in and out of the cones on an autocross course. They are _not_ "fast" in stock form (916s excepted).

Aaron
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Old 07-12-2005, 07:37 AM
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Mines FAST

For the Autocross courses I run, my car is very fast. capable of TTOD over Lancer EVO by 2 seconds. I have a co driver that is just Freaking Nuts. The car is faster than me so I have now decided to stop modifying it and get better at driving it.

I have had it to 120MPH Flat walked away from my son's Focus ZX3 standing start to 80 mph. and then again from 75 MPH left him like he was standing still.

70 hopped up 2.0L with side shift 1976 lbs at last weigh in.
Old 07-12-2005, 09:16 AM
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yup we get screwed with the 0-60 measurements... 30-75 is the beast! and cornering smooth... I'd love to see the numbers a 914 gets on a skidpad... I think a lotus gets around .9g and I'd bet the teener could top that with good rubber
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Old 07-12-2005, 10:39 AM
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I've gotten mine up to speed and noticed that it is definitely a Porsche in the handling dept. It is almost like two different cars. When idling out of the garage and putting down the street. Then when you get to 45-50 and start to corner it rails them with the sharpest steering I've ever known. Cool little car!

Mike
Old 07-12-2005, 11:04 AM
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yep 0-40 it's a VW, 40-100, it's a porsche!
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Old 07-12-2005, 11:54 AM
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yeah, 0-60 don't mean a whole lot unless you're selling car magazines. even the 911's of the time don't really measure up by modern 'car&driver' standards.

BUT, my warmed up 2056 (carbs/cam) in a semi-stripped car (app. 2100 lbs with me in it) will hang with a 911SC up to about 50 or 60mph, after which they start to pull me. 2nd gear with my foot all in it, and my wheels had better be pointed straight, or we're going for a spin. i can pull most ricers now, but any new sports car will simply embarass me.

that's okay. it's all about corner exit speed, anyway.
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Last edited by nebreitling; 07-12-2005 at 07:52 PM..
Old 07-12-2005, 04:11 PM
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In last month's "9" mag there is a story about a stock 912E that runs in top speed events. Stock 2.0 L T-IV engine with FI that won his event with a top speed of 104 MPH I think. Heavier than a 914 but probably more slick. I have one #265 and have had 2 others , The speedometer is about 10-15% fast.
Old 07-12-2005, 04:55 PM
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Well I think anything better than stock will make me happy so the question is, how is it going to cost me for moderate upgrades to get nebreitlings kind of performance. Starting with small displacement increase (2056cc) and carbs and cam.

Mike
Old 07-12-2005, 05:52 PM
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Do you want to do the work yourself, or farm it out?

Evidently good carbs are getting hard to find. Add to that the fact that a good tunable EFI will make at least as much power as any carb setup, and offer superior driveability, and you have a case for looking into something like SDS or Megasquirt, or the Miller FI adaptation of Rabbit or Volvo CIS approach. Most of those will require some dyno time to dial in... Which adds to the expense, of course!

Figure about $100-200 to get your cylinders honed to 96mm, then about $350 for new pistons and rings. About $500 for a new cam/gear/lifters. You can get carbs off Evil-Bay for dirt cheap or a whole lot. Even the best will usually need a rebuild; the worst won't really be useable even after being rebuilt. EFI setups can range from $500-ish for a Megasquirt setup (with lots of work done by you!) to a couple grand for one of the "bells and whistles" versions.

Budget $500-$2000+ for headers. You need headers.

You can also ask Nathan what his engine cost him. I believe he did everything but the machine-work on his engine.

--DD
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Old 07-12-2005, 06:58 PM
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i emailed him my costs and also 'more average' costs.

i built this thing -- literally -- in my kitchen. i got LUCKY on parts. was very very nice to my machinist. i also recouped a lot of my costs by selling a bunch of **** off my old engine.

carbs were about $600 less when i bought mine than they are now. given costs today, i'd go FI. still might.

even given the compression rate i run (9.65:1), i'm expecting it could go a good 50k miles out of it before it needs refreshing, though i'll prolly open it up before then just to keep the power up (hey it's practically only for AX and track).

yup, bring money for headers. $650-700 ought to do it, unless you want to squeeze every last bit of power out of your engine, in which a tangerine header is the bomb.
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Old 07-12-2005, 07:52 PM
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oh -- i guess i can't swear on this bbs! ****! whoops, i did it again!


(it's fun!)
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Old 07-12-2005, 07:54 PM
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Engine??

I have everything you will need to build and engine all almost new. (complete balanced crank-pistons-rods, 12# flywheel,and PP) almost new clutch disc, MSD dizzy, 44mm webers (complete) 96mm P&C's with NEW rings Kerry Hunter header(ceramic coated) with suppertrapp, Scat c-35 cam with matching lifters, High rev valve springs and fly cut heads. a 2056 cc engine.

The BAD just rebuilt the engine due to a blown out (helicoiled) spark plug had the heads welded up .....fired it up and walhaaa a rod knock.......The case was bored over (GA CASE) .020. The heads were flycut to an unknown CC but are both the same. I have a spare set of heads (ALL 2.0 LITER HEADS) with 1 small crack in 1 port only and another unmolested GA case I'd let it all go for $2250 + shipping.

I have much more in this engine than that!!

I am going to 6er land and already have the goods for it a 2.4 with S+ cams and 2.2 S P&C's SCREAMER....hence why I am not going to need it any longer...Just built the engine a week ago can still hear it run (does'nt sound too bad yet)

Thanks
Josh

Last edited by degreeoff1; 07-13-2005 at 04:42 AM..
Old 07-13-2005, 04:38 AM
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well my car is not stock but my 0 to 60 is about 5.25 to 5.5 seconds, then when i hit 3rd 90 mph comes real fast. i just did a run from 70 to 120 the other day, i stepped on it and looked down flying past 110... oppps

specs are 2.5 liter na suby motor apprx 175 hp
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Old 07-13-2005, 09:11 AM
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I think I'm leaning towards something like Scotts Suby motor or maybe a rotary. Spending 10 grand on a 911 motor seems wasteful. I could sell my 914 and take $10k and come close to buying a used Boxster. Spending $6K on a Raby motor is insane. Spending $2-4K on a type IV motor to get 120 HP doesn't seem fruitful. If it takes that much money to get a type IV to gain 30 HP that motor doesn't want more power or wasn't designed for HP.
There are so many motors you can buy complete for $1k that have 150 HP. Fitting radiators and water lines along with motor adapters and carriages can't be too hard.
I really like that air cooled sound though. Maybe I should look into turbos for the type IV.
Dave, I'd like to hear more about the Megasquirt.

Mike
Old 07-13-2005, 08:01 PM
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Sadly, the Type IV cylinder heads aren't very well set up for turbocharging. They don't seal all that well against very high cylinder pressures, and the exhaust flow is not great unless you massage the heads. Which can get you into real trouble unless someone who knows what he's doing is the one doing the massaging. (You can kill flow by "hogging out" the ports; you can make the short-radius bend too tight and remove enough material that it cracks the first time you fire up the motor; you can remove enough material that the exhaust studs poke through, and so on.)

Stock-ish motors seem to be good up to about 7 PSI on normal gas, and 10 PSI on race gas. Not sure for how long, though--the head sealing issues can supposedly start at lower pressures than that!

Rebuilding a stock Type IV will run you $2K-$4K, if you do it right. You can frequently get away with spending less (sometimes a whole lot less!) but you start taking your chances with the engine's lifespan. (E.g., you really do want to replace all of the valve seats. If you don't, your risk of having the seat drop is much higher.)

Rotaries require as much cooling as big V-8 motors. They're real heat monsters. Usually, those engines are good for one dose of overheating--and then throw it away.

You'll find that all of the "details" to cleanly install just about any $1K engine will quickly add up to the price of a nice Type IV; and if you want a very slick install the price will likely wind up in Six territory!!

No matter how much you spend, a Boxter will never be a 914. Nor will a 914 ever be a Boxter. The Box is a modern, civilized car. It is comfy, relatively powerful, fairly heavy, has stunning brakes, is quiet, handles very very well indeed. The 914 is a very raw driving experience. You sit on the ground in a flywheight chassis with modest power, it's not that comfy, it's loud and obnoxious, the brakes range from OK to sucky, but the handling is mind-blowing. (If you really want a Boxster, buy one--they're great cars, but they're not 914s.)

Megasquirt is very very much a DIY thing. Not only do you have to find/make the fuel delivery system and the air intake system, and not only do you have to come up with the fuel maps, but you even have to solder the ECU together!!
http://www.bgsoflex.com/megasquirt.html
Very neat stuff, if you're really into tinkering. Not in any way shape or form a "plug and play" system.

--DD
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Old 07-13-2005, 09:54 PM
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What is your budget?

My humble opinions...

The cheapest conversion is a Chevy 350 V8. That was my original intention, then I thought about all the other options.... A six is nice, I thought about rotary for a while, entertained a few other ideas, but always come back to the 350. Although I have to say, Scott's Suby is sweet... a WRX motor is the only option that could sway me from a SBC today.

1. Extreme Raby motor; SWEET, simple plug and play, but dang it I can't afford it.
2. Chevy 350; Most power and torque for the buck hands down. No limits. Easiest build and conversion due to so much aftermarket support. A 300HP V8 will run reliably for a lot of miles. Cheapest rebuild.
3. Subaru WRX motor; Modern boxer, can put cooling system in engine bay.
4. Porsche Six; Cool... it's a Porsche... and it sounds like one.
5. Rotary; Small and light, can get strong HP... but not as much torque... Could physically fit cooling system in engine bay pretty easy but they run so hot that might not work.

(Fortunately, my 2.0 with minor mods is running strong enough to satisfy me until I get everything I need for the swap.)

Last edited by RandyLok; 07-13-2005 at 10:17 PM..
Old 07-13-2005, 10:12 PM
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I have never driven a V8 conversion or in 1 for that matter. I know it is a chop job even at best where you loose an overdrive gear and KILL weight distribution, so far as the suby and rotary are concerned neither 1 is a "cheap" fix or project. The only engine swap I would even consider is the 911 6 as you then become a pure breed that is WORTH something. I have RIDDEN in a 6er and it is AWESOME!!! (a 2.7 with Webber's) fast torquey and sexy sounding.

I have graduated through all T4 step up hop ups and the pieces I have assembled are about as good (and CHEAP) as you can get and ( 95hp VS 125hp) is a BIG change......

I say all of this NOT to sell my goods but to save you from spending yours fruitlessly or on a never ending project that will wind up on jack stands NOT rolling as it should. My teener will go 0-60 in 6 and change seconds with my current power and top out about 125mph, spins at 6k all day long (you must balance the rotating assembly though) else you ll explode.

My 2 cents, hell it takes me 1 hr to remove my engine and a 1/2 day to disassemble and reassemble with new bearings....with 2-3 months of summer driving left I may just keep it till winter....I have budgeted 3 months after the new year for the swap.

Josh
Old 07-14-2005, 02:44 AM
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So Josh what exactly is the issue with the heads and the rod knock. Are you selling parts or a complete engine that can be stripped for parts? What is a BAD?

Mike
Old 07-14-2005, 04:06 AM
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I'd go Suby before v8... wwhy?
1) do you need 350 hp in a 2000lb car?
2) the tranny can't handle the torque anyway, so you have to swap in a 915 or 930 trans which is neither cheap or easy

suby is an easier conversion(esp. with the rad. in the engine compartment)
it also SOUNDS like a t4, and runs like a scalded dog!

personally my order of prefrence is: Raby 4, then a porsche 6, then the suby... but the suby is the cheapest of the conversions... even cheaper than a v8!
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Old 07-14-2005, 06:15 AM
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